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02-12-2013, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCGAPilot
My dad and I will probably pour the foundation ourselves.
Well one of the reason I'm building is so I can do all the maintenance and annuals myself. Which would save me a ton of money in operating cost.
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Remember, even if you purchase a flying homebuilt, you can still do all the maintenance & repairs yourself. The only thing you must pay for is the condition inspection. The cost seems to vary wildly by area, but my cost for the most recent inspection went up by 33%. To $200.00. Not a big percentage of ownership expenses.
Charlie
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02-13-2013, 10:51 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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As the article in the EAA SportAir indicated, I funded part of my construction by delivering papers, but there was no way that was going to do much more than get me started. The cost of tools was pretty high initially, as people have said.
I floated a loan for the engine, which is the only part of the build for which I got a loan. To me, it makes some sense. Interest is cheap and deductible (3.99%) but you do need to be disciplined onthe payback.
And, to me, THAT's the key word in this effort -- discipline. You really do have, as people have pointed out, ways to spend less. And in our case, we also didn't replace cars (which allowed money that was going to them to go to paying off the loan, once the car loans were paid off).
I'm flying now, but unfortunately, I need to buy some cars soon.
It is VERY possible to understate the cost of finishing once you get to that point, insurance, transition training, sales taxes and registration all come pretty much at once.
As far as the costs of actual flying, I think these are among the most manageable costs because you kind of know what they're going to be and can set aside funds. No money for gas? You don't fly. Period. Problem solved. You can end up throwing a lot of money on a credit card, but , again, you need the discipline to pay those things off every month.
It is possible to build these things and not have a fat pension or a company you own. You do have to manage the tendency to want something just because everyone else has one and to recognize that the 6 year old EFIS you have is just fine and if you're a VFR pilot and you don't have Skyview or the latest thing, just remind yourself how much you're saving by looking out the window and seeing the real thing.
Frugal will come back in style someday.
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02-13-2013, 11:10 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 45G, Brighton, MI
Posts: 1,867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry
...Frugal will come back in style someday.
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I like that quote! That's the only way I'll ever be "in style". I run cars 10-12 years (at 30K miles/year), and still live in the <1300ft^2 house I bought between wives 11+ years ago. An earlier poster mentioned not being able to convince his wife to cancel cable. I'm in that same boat with my wife, but my reason for wanting to cancel is more for the decrease in wasted time than a decrease in expenses. I am however, still watching TV on a more or less square CRT. (Those of you under 30 might have to google that one...  )
As for saving money for the project, I throw about 130/week into my company stock plan (over and above my retirement savings), and have been for 10-12 years. It comes out of my pay before I see it (pay yourself first!), so I've learned to live without it. I pulled a chunk out about a year ago for both the wing and fuselage kits, and balance is already back about where it was before. There's enough there now to finish the project. If the market slows down, I'll slow down.
__________________
Miles (VAF# 1238, Paid up as of 2018)
RV-7 TU 904KM (reserved)
Wings Fitted and Finish Kit on site
Construction Log
Picasa: Empennage Album, Wings Album, Fuselage Album
1955 Cessna 170B flying since 1982
'To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.' -Unk.
Last edited by longranger : 02-13-2013 at 11:21 AM.
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02-13-2013, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Scipio, in Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,779
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Quote:
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Well one of the reason I'm building is so I can do all the maintenance and annuals myself. Which would save me a ton of money in operating cost.
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On an E-LSA RV-12, you can do the maintenance, whether you built it or not. To do the annual (condition inspection) on either one, you have to take the class. So, things are pretty much the same. Light Sport is different from other experimentals when it comes time for the condition inspection.
__________________
Bob Kelly, Scipio, Indiana
Tech Counselor
Founder, Eagle's Nest Projects
President, AviationNation, Inc
RV-9A N908BL, Flying
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02-13-2013, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 32
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I set up a separate account for my Cessna 150. Each week $125 comes out of my check and goes into the account. That pays my fixed costs...Hangar, Insurance, Annual. Now each time I fly, I pay for fuel but also pay myself per hour for my engine overhaul and general maintenance. What I did was determine how long I had till TBO. Then divided the estimated cost of the overhaul by the hours remaining on the engine. I plan for a factory reman so I estimated $25,000. I then tacked on some extra money for routine maintenance and came up with a figure of $30 per hour. So I only fly if I can afford it. I need to cover the cost of fuel and $30 per hour I fly. When I get home I simply multiply my flight time by $30 and transfer that money into my airplane account. When the time for maintenance or the overhaul comes, I will have the money waiting. I will not be one of those sitting on a run out airplane they cant afford to fix. So....If I dont have the money to cover the fuel and my reserve, I do not fly....no matter how good the weather is. It is all about discipline.
Dom
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02-13-2013, 07:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 963
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[color=black]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by I floated a loan for the engine, which is the only part of the build for which I got a loan. To me, it makes some sense. Interest is cheap and deductible (3.99%) but you do need to be disciplined on the payback.[/COLOR
And, to me, THAT's the key word in this effort -- discipline. You really do have, as people have pointed out, ways to spend less. And in our case, we also didn't replace cars (which allowed money that was going to them to go to paying off the loan, once the car loans were paid off).
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I'd love to learn about the interest deduction! I'm guessing second mortgage on your home?
I bit the bullet up front on cars and bought into something that's going to last forever (or at least my forever). Now they're paid for and its time to turn to a plane.
The RV-12 for me was all about cost of operation and knowing fully the cost to build it. I was perplexed about the true cost to build other models and for that matter other manufactures aircraft. You can figure the cost of the airframe kits but there's much more than that which goes into even a basic aircraft. Stuff I don't even know about and therefore can't budget for.
Everything you need for the 12 is there but the oil and the paint. The cost is known up front. Take the weekend classes and you are the maintenance god. Personally I'll probably have someone else go over the Rotax even with the classes at least until I get comfortable.
I also took a look at the cost of fuel/hr. The Rotax uses about half the fuel of a 172. I know I could pull the throttle back on the RV-9 and get there but I'm not good at that!
Of course for me having an the LSA aircraft was also very valuable. As I get older I can appreciate that I don't need to fly 4 people at 200 mph (even though I'd like too - I drool over RV-10's!). That driver’s license medical means the plane I'm getting ready to spend time and more importantly dollars on, will be with me longer. I can fly forever!
An engine kit is what $28k, the airframe is ~$23k and the instruments are approaching $15k. So how do I get there?
For me I've bought the tail/emp (and rivets). I have tools from my RV-9 start and will still need a few more but I can get started. I plan on getting friendly with NAFCO and just financing it. When I buy the tail that applies to the 15% down for the rest of the airframe kit. When I get that done its the same thing, I refi the airframe for the avionics and engine. When you buy those last big pieces NAFCO (or who ever you finance through - I get no discounts for using a company name here) considers it a full aircraft even if its still just parts. I'm glad others don't need to finance, but realistically unless I just buy an old 172 with a good engine (still going to cost 35k), then I'll never get there.
Everyone has a different path and different priorities. Even then, sometimes the road has twists and turns you don't plan on. It's called life. You just do what you can and get started. Join the EAA and local chapter and buy the tail kit. I imagine it won't take long until you have helping hands and loaner tools and then viola - real airplane parts.
It's a journey and like all journeys you will learn and grow along the way...and so will your plane!
Bob
__________________
Bob Hassel
NM
Subscription Paid for 2020
Home is where the hanger is...
Last edited by bhassel : 02-13-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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02-14-2013, 07:22 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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Sorry, yes, I should've made that more clear -- it was a home equity line. Back in the '90s, when everyone was pulling out equity of their homes and refinancing -- and resetting the interest-payment block -- I refinanced to knock 5 years off the 30-years, and build equity faster for possible future use.
The mortgage will be paid off in 4 more years. I look on that day it as "gas money!" 
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02-17-2013, 11:53 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Horsham, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 83
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Mate, this plane is on Barnstormers at the moment and looks like excellent value. He states 72 grand invested and my bet is that is conservative. Save yourself a couple of thousand hours, make him an offer and take to the skies
REDUCED $15K! 1995 Low time RV6A for sale! 693 hours total time since new on aircraft, engine and prop. Factory New Lycoming 160 hp O320 D1A. Factory New Hartzell constant speed prop. Basic IFR, Dynon D10A EFIS, KN 53 nav, KI 209 indicator, garmin 195 GPS, navaid autopilot. Over $72K invested. Impeccably maintained by Owner/A&P. Always kept in a hanger. Excellent craftsmanship! Complete Logs. No damage history. Cruise at 180 mph on 7 gph. Based in Ogden, Utah. I have to sell it to finish my RV7, I'll keep reducing the price until it's sold so get it before it?s gone! $57K. ? Contact Matthew L. Kimber, Owner - located Clinton, UT USA ? Telephone: 8017212648 . ? Posted February 17,
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Rv 7A
Rv 6
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