Elevator and Rudder Last Rivet

[longranger]

Originally Posted by 330Jock

OK all you brilliant RV'rs. For those of you who did it! How did you get the very last rivet in both elevator and rudder? thanks for the help

You might try the Indirect Riveting Techinque in this EAA Video.

[BSwayze]

The problem of reaching in to those narrow places doesn't just happen when riveting. It's hard to dimple those holes, too. I found that I didn't have anything that would allow me to get my dimple dies in there and do the dimpling. Even a pop-rivet dimpler won't work because it's so narrow in there, you can't get the nail in there and through the hole, and out again when you're finished. So I got a little creative with this, and I'll share my method here with anyone who is interested.

Before I started my project I bought a set of bucking bars that included the one seen in this first picture. It came in very handy throughout the build. This is the tool set-up that I used for this job. Besides the bucking bar I mentioned, you can see my rivet gun, my pop-rivet dimple die set, and a few holes out at the end of the rib that need dimpling.



Next, I cut a nail short, so I could get it in there and through the die and through the hole in the rib. If you get the length of the cut-off nail just right, it will be long enough to hold the dies together, but not long enough to protrude through the other die on the outside of the rib. You'll see below why this is important:



Here, you can see the concave die inserted in place inside the rib. The short nail is through the hole:



Then, you put the other die in place, and use the rivet gun and bucking bar to hammer a nice dimple:



All finished! This actually worked out very well. Just to make sure I had a good dimple, I used my countersink cutter and cage to touch up these holes. That probably wasn't necessary. I observed that the cutter removed only a very tiny amount of material.

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Like Bruce, dimpled with the pop rivet dimpler.

I squeezed using a no-hole yoke in a TATCO squeezer.

[JurgenRoeland]

Just put in a MK319-BS pop rivet. Its really not worth the hassle with special methods that give you the risk of screwing up and messing up having to drill out in this thight spot. I tried some techniques and always was not happy with the result.
I used the Indirect Riveting Techinque a couple of time on test pieces but never got the same result as in the video on the EAA site.

Vans also puts the same pop rivets in the flap assembly at unreachable places. (see DWG14-A) at the top right of the plan. i did the same on the last rivet on the other side of the flap as it's almost unreachable by normal bucking or squeezer yoke. If you don't like the little hole in the rivet for beauty reasons, you can always put some filler in there at the end before painting. But believe me, you won't be that critical anymore 5 years from now

Have fun building

[Rupester]

Originally Posted by JurgenRoeland

Just put in a MK319-BS pop rivet. Its really not worth the hassle with special methods that give you the risk of screwing up...

Yep. That's what I did. Quick, easy, and effective.

[Flyin'Bryan]

Originally Posted by Rupester

Yep. That's what I did. Quick, easy, and effective.

After attempting to make my own custom bar and also watching the EAA homebuilt videos for both close quarter riveting and dimpling using the Cleaveland Tools close quarter dimpling tool shown here, I have used the Cleaveland Tool numerous times to make the dimples in these tight areas, and also used the mk 319 bs pop rivets. Click on the pic in the link for a much bigger and better view. You will need two items from Cleaveland unless you already have their C-Frame tool, which already comes with the .401 rivet set that you can insert into your rivet gun:

.401 rivet set for holding the male dimple die
Close Quarter tool with female die (the bar)

The .401 shank that holds the male dimple die inserts into your rivet gun, and the flat bar tool contains the female dimple die inserted at the tip. Be sure to turn your air pressure way down on the gun and don't bang for too long. (Use practice pieces to get the feel for it first).

One last tip - if you use these tools from Cleaveland, you will find that you may need to grind a small amount of material from the tip of the bar that holds the female dimple die to provide adequate clearance from some of the rib or spar webs on parts with flanges that are not very wide on the elevators and trim tabs, etc.

Searching on the forums here has lots of posts on this topic, with all of the ideas posted thus far, and many many more, including the use of axe blades and other various things to get the job done. The choice is yours.

Git 'er done and build on!

[330Jock]

Majority rules! Put MK319-BS in and never looked back!
Thanks!

[propsync]

I'm guessing decisions like these are what really add to the time to build an rv.

[rapid_ascent]

Just a comment on Bruces technique for dimpling. I use a variation with the cut nail with the pop rivet dimpler. I just take my vice grips and squeeze them by hand. You may need to move the vice grips to complete the dimple due to the uneven pressure, but this works like a charm. Its very fast. The only down side is it does tend to chew up the back side of the dimple dies a little.

[JurgenRoeland]

MK-319-BS, is my favorite friend in the hardware box.

Not worth the extra money for special bucking bars nor the effort and frustration you spend. Just fill up the pop rivet hole before painting and you won't notice the difference.