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  #71  
Old 01-05-2013, 04:52 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Default Demonstrated reliability.

Guys, my Air Tractor is a 1989 model and now has 9500 hours of abuse! Yeah, we work them harder than you can imagine, with literally hundreds of turns, both left and right, per day. Those are coupled with huge rudder inputs because of incredible adverse yaw....we have to replace the rudder cables every year. They're attached just like my RV's..castellated nuts and cotter keys.

Our elevator and aileron pushrods look exactly like Van's RV's and use a nyloc nut for attachment and in all these years and hours, no nyloc nut has ever fallen off. They're certified airplanes with an FAA inspector on the assembly line and they come that way.

Best,
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RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!

Last edited by pierre smith : 01-05-2013 at 04:54 AM. Reason: adds
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  #72  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:14 AM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Huskerland, USA
Posts: 5,862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S. View Post
To apply a simple principle to all of this discussion. A fastener is only as good as its installation. Avoid blaming a nut for failure if the nut never had the chance.
Quote of the Year!

Every properly installed nut has a nut builder behind it.
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RV-7 : In the hangar
RV-10 : In the hangar
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  #73  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:32 AM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
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Location: Battleground
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S. View Post
To apply a simple principle to all of this discussion. A fastener is only as good as its installation. Avoid blaming a nut for failure if the nut never had the chance.
Nailed it!
Larry nailed it too. We are all a little nuts.
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RV6 - Builder/Flying
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Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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  #74  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:40 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
....

Our elevator and aileron pushrods look exactly like Van's RV's and use a nyloc nut for attachment and in all these years and hours, no nyloc nut has ever fallen off. They're certified airplanes with an FAA inspector on the assembly line and they come that way.

Best,
Even certified German factories can screw up...

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...98LA209&akey=1
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EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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  #75  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:37 PM
Wayne Gillispie Wayne Gillispie is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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The use of elevator trim, autopilot and throttle would be my choices in this particular failure. Not something we practice for. Our -10 is tougher than I thought. I sure am glad they are alive. All of that oil on the bottom sure seems excessive for break-in.
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  #76  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:53 PM
DaAV8R DaAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 747
Default Steel lock nuts

I will use steel lock nuts for final assembly on all control surfaces and pushrods. The nylon lock nut provides about 1 or 2 in/lbs of resistance and the steel lock nut provides about 7 or 8 in/lbs according to my testing. Just a little extra insurance.
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Lee's Summit, MO
RV-8 - Empennage & Wings Done
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1946 Cessna 120
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  #77  
Old 01-06-2013, 05:39 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Location: Louisville, Ga
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Default Maybe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Gillispie View Post
The use of elevator trim, autopilot and throttle would be my choices in this particular failure. Not something we practice for. Our -10 is tougher than I thought. I sure am glad they are alive. All of that oil on the bottom sure seems excessive for break-in.
Wayne, I just had a gentleman here for some transition training on Friday and I demoed elevator trim use, and he evaluated it too. You run out of trim during the flair and still need elevator pressure to hold the nose up. As you well know, the -10's are very trim dependant.

These guys may well have started the flair when the elevator let go, and instantly pitched nose over and smacked the pavement with no opportunity to react in the one or two seconds in this episode.

Best,
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Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
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  #78  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:54 AM
Wayne Gillispie Wayne Gillispie is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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I have 25 extra lbs of aux battery/hot bus/wiring aft of baggage bulkhead. I flew solo Thur with 40 lbs of baggage. I left trim set after landing and it was still a great amount of nose up trim. I had not trimmed off all of the stick force either or it would have been close to being at max deflection. When I have the whole family on board and do the same thing, there is very little nose up trim needed on landing.

Wonder if we could also use our autopilot if we knew far enough out and high enough? I think I have my "Min Aspd" set at 90 kts, so that would need to be set down around 65 kts in order to keep it from nosing us over. Set up for a 200-300 fpm descent at the longest runway available. The flare would be the tricky part...dialing in a level off or slight climb at just the right moment while not taking out so much power that the nose drops.

This accident pilot did a fantastic job getting down, so not questioning his piloting skills. Just thinking of our options.
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  #79  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:03 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 2,393
Default autopilot

If the connection at the elevator fails, what would the autopilot be connected to???
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  #80  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:20 PM
Wayne Gillispie Wayne Gillispie is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs14855 View Post
If the connection at the elevator fails, what would the autopilot be connected to???
In this case here AP may be another option. Anything aft of pitch servo and one is left with trim, power and weight shifting(which works, we have already tried that up high).
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