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View Poll Results: RV14 Customer Support.
I feel Vans customer support is fine as is for the RV14. 39 81.25%
Vans needs to step up their Customer Support for the RV14 on the Engine and Avionics. 9 18.75%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:11 AM
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KCBerner KCBerner is offline
 
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Default Early adopters get what they ask for

As far as the shipping notifications, I agree that it would be nice if that was handled better. For many of the rest of these concerns...exactly what were you thinking you would get on these things when you were itching to pull the trigger and get the lowest possible serial number of the new model? This is my first time through this but I'm seeing the level of support I expected. Vans staff has been great every time I've called or emailed with a question.

Box Sizes: Look at the other models and estimate...I used RV9 for planning...it's got a longer wing
Notice of final Billing: Don't check the box that gives them permission to draft at will
Ship Date: Ask them when they call for your final payment...or just call and ask them...

Maybe this first time builder is just too old-school or something but I don't see a huge problem here.
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  #22  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:33 AM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith View Post

As far as revision blocks on drawings, my RV-8 drawings have those. So I expect that all Van's drawings do. But the problem with paper drawings is that just because you can see the revision level of your drawing, you don't know that it is the current revision level. In the past, it has been trusted that it is the appropriate revision level for YOUR kit. But that may no longer be the case. It does seem like a good addition to their website, in the same section as the service bulletins, to have a drawing index with the "current" revision level of each drawing.
Steve, the problem is that the changes on the drawing are not flagged, clouded, described or otherwise highlighted. That means you have to do a line by line, figure by figure comparison to find out what's different. That's simply not good enough. Vans do explain that if you have already built to an earlier revision of a drawing, then you can usually disregard a later revision of the same drawing.
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  #23  
Old 12-15-2012, 07:45 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDOG View Post
The problems are:
No notice of ship date.
No estimated cost of shipping.
No notice of shipment arrival date.
No notice of crate sizes or weights.
No notice of electronic plans or paper plans. (RV-14 appears to have only electronic plans, this is not a bad thing but it would be nice to know) I did query them earlier if plans would be available digitally and yes they are.
No notice Van's billed my credit card for the balance of payment.

I just started my build.

Because I helped build a 12 and the only decisions that needed to be made were what options to add and the color. I'm saying Vans needs to step up their customer service. If Vans sells the part they need to service the part or make arrangements for the vender to service it. On the 12 Vans played things off on the vender and the vender then put it back on Vans while we waited for them to decide who was responsible for the problem. I believe the 14 will be a great plane that is why I bought one. I just don't want to have the problems we had on the 12 to reappear on the 14.
Shouldn't we at least give Vans the chance to get a complete RV-14 kit out the door before we start complaining about customer support?

Some are demanding the full service package before a single complete customer plane has shipped. You are a very early adopters....if these issues remain after full production is in place and all the kits are going out the door then it will be time to address them.

RV-14 builders will receive the customer service needed once the RV-14 is fully ramped up. Vans wouldn't be the huge success they are now if this was not the case.

Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but..........

By the way, some happy RV-14 builders in this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=93824
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 12-15-2012 at 08:20 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-15-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
Shouldn't we at least give Vans the chance to get a complete RV-14 kit out the door before we start complaining about customer support?

Some are demanding the full service package before a single complete customer plane has shipped. You are a very early adopters....if these issues remain after full production is in place and all the kits are going out the door then it will be time to address them.

RV-14 builders will receive the customer service needed once the RV-14 is fully ramped up. Vans wouldn't be the huge success they are now if this was not the case.

Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but..........

By the way, some happy RV-14 builders in this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=93824
Some are totally missing the point. Van's is a great company who provides a world class product. I'm not complaining about the product, i'm suggesting how to improve the builder experience.
I should not have to call and ask what my order status is or call for any of the basic items. It should be open and available to me on their web site. Lets help Van's get to the next level of kit plane manufacturing.
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  #25  
Old 12-15-2012, 01:52 PM
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ScottSchmidt ScottSchmidt is offline
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Default I guess I never even thought of those things.

Once I received the first kit, the rest really didn't matter since I ordered them before I needed them.
I assume:
Van's is doing their best to get the kits out as fast as they can.
Van's is finding the best/cheapest/reliable shipping method.

As for the complete/integrated kit with avionics, FWF, ect... it is still an option on the -14.

Plus with the internet and builders across the US, I think I called Van's 2 or 3 times over the build of two airplanes (10 and 12).

Sure, I am a believer in continuous and relentless improvement. Unfortunately, Van's has little competition and second place isn't even close to the quality, variety and performance of their kit. Remember, the second most popular kit company right now is Sonex(based on # of units sold). I don't think they do much better.

I also find Van's very responsive. Let them know what bothers you and see if they can come up with a tracking/update section on the website that uses your builder number to keep track of what you ordered, where it is in the que, estimated ship date and cost and size/weight of package. It might not take priority today but down the road maybe they will add something like that.

The truth is that Van's is already doing this and making things better and I think they are putting their resources on the most important things. Like others have said, the early -3 and -4 builders out there are laughing at this because of how incredible the kits have become. I tell everyone the -12 practically builds itself once you open the box compared to the -10. Van's does a great job looking at the total value stream from idea, manufacturing of the kit, though building, flying and repair and does great at improving the "pain" points.

I guess another question I would ask is, If Van's had 100 hours of improvement capacity, what would you want them to do?

-Pre-dimpled skins?
-zero cut or sand wingtips/cowl/wheel pants/fairings?
-debur/prime option for all components?
-wiring kits for all major EFIS/Avionics companies?
-better tracking and shipping / Customer Service
-?????????

I think most of us live and build our planes around others like us. At my airport there is at least 12 RV's with dozens more around us. And guys like Tim Olson (for the -10 and now -14) are walking and talking databases with endless knowledge or at least offer the direction to ask our question. So if you don't have that network I can see why customer service might become your #1.

I look forward to the next great improvement from Van's, because I know it is coming.
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  #26  
Old 12-15-2012, 02:01 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDOG View Post
Some are totally missing the point. Van's is a great company who provides a world class product. I'm not complaining about the product, i'm suggesting how to improve the builder experience.
I should not have to call and ask what my order status is or call for any of the basic items. It should be open and available to me on their web site. Lets help Van's get to the next level of kit plane manufacturing.
And if those of us who have been in the RV community for multiple years (and planes) are totally missing the point......the question begs to be asked.....is "the point" valid??

I've said too much already--"my point" is that builders would be best served by taking advantage of what Vans offers today and getting on with their project instead of worrying about trying to squeeze Vans through a particular marketing template.

Guess I'm too bone-headed (after looking at the incredible RV-14) to understand what the "next level of kit plane manufacturing" really involves....
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 12-15-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-15-2012, 02:07 PM
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Jetguy Jetguy is offline
 
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Thumbs up Amour Has a few dents but Im ready for some more baby!

Now that I have some dents in my amour let me add a few things to this thread I started. I didn?t start this thread to bash Vans! I started it so through the process of free speech on the form we as builders new and old could express some thoughts in a professional manner in regards to the changing of the type of kits and customer service at Vans. At the end of the day as this poll progresses Ill be the first to admit that it reveals that most builders are satisfied with the customer service at Vans. Let?s think of it another way so we are clear on one thing!

Do I think the United States of America is the greatest country on earth to live?
Yes I do! But I think there are a few things that could be better!
Do I think Vans Aircraft is the Best Kit Plane Company on the Earth?
Yes I do! But I think there are a few things that they could do better in regards to customer service!

Now let me see if I can hit a few highlights from comments I have seen so Far on this thread.

Sam Thanks for reminding me my dues are pay.

If I buy a new $30,000.00 car and plan on keeping it for ten years I would probably buy the extended warranty or yes if it was offered I would probably buy the extra customer service on a $90,000.00 plane if it was offered. It?s done every day when you go into a store you are offered an extended warranty on just about everything you buy. You would be very surprised how many RV12 build videos are be sold right now to those builders.

Once again I?m talking about buying an all inclusive kit where there are no decisions to be made and very few options offered except which colors to paint it or use in the interior.

Will old schools guys still build it their way? You bet they will but I predict that most new builders will not choose to do this. Stats on the RV12 will bear this out. This is a new world order men and the profile of the new Kit builder is a changing!

Which market are they expanding into? You make the call. Oh look here is one, through a another Company they are now offering Factory built RV12s obviously this will attract new customer who are not Kit plane builders at all.

This thread is not conclusive to the RV14.

Here is an example of a question that might occur. Mr Dynon Tech, I have a sensor problem can you help me? Dynon Tech,How is your Skyview wired? Customer, I don?t know because on my RV14 there is a Proprietary Vans Built Switch Panel that it is plugged into. Dynon Tech, Sorry can?t help you out cause even though that?s definitely our product(think about how many D-180s and now Skyviews will go into the over 700 serial numbers issued RV12 Kits) offered in the all inclusive kit we don?t have to wiring diagram of that switch panel either.

Maybe we could do it this way. Vans puts out for bid to the avionics companies that they are looking for a Avionics package to put into their new inclusive RV14 Kit. We predict that over 500 of these packages will be sold in the next 10 years. Along with this we want free tech support during installation of you product for our builders. Furthermore in support of this you will be required to sign a non- disclosure/use contract on our wiring diagram in the airplane.
Now take the same paragraph and insert the words Lycoming/Textron Inc.
Will they do it, who knows but it wouldn?t hurt to try.
If all else fails maybe yes they can charge customers for this convenience if they so choose. Again everybody else is doing it.

Ok ,I've knocked out the dents in my amour and am ready for another round.
All Hail to the freedom of the Word!
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2012, 04:07 PM
Peterk Peterk is offline
 
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[quote=N208ET;725022]The guys that built old RV3's, 4's, and 6's are laughing their heads off.

so were the dinosaurs. Jetguy is correct, this is not an attack on Van's...it is a question about what to expect from a manufacturer in trade for your money. To say you just need to get to building and let the manufacturer do his thing is nothing but "homerism".

In this day and age where people are abandoning land lines for cell phones and not for talking but for texting....Van's needs to join the 20th century with their customer service. But they don't have to...so they don't. They obviously sell all they want. If they wanted more business they could market their product better but they are satisfied with what they have (no competition?) so why should they.
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2012, 04:24 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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[quote=Peterk;725632]
Quote:
Originally Posted by N208ET View Post
The guys that built old RV3's, 4's, and 6's are laughing their heads off.

so were the dinosaurs. Jetguy is correct, this is not an attack on Van's...it is a question about what to expect from a manufacturer in trade for your money. To say you just need to get to building and let the manufacturer do his thing is nothing but "homerism".

In this day and age where people are abandoning land lines for cell phones and not for talking but for texting....Van's needs to join the 20th century with their customer service. But they don't have to...so they don't. They obviously sell all they want. If they wanted more business they could market their product better but they are satisfied with what they have (no competition?) so why should they.
I admitted to being boneheaded, but now I find out that I'm a dinosaur and a homer (had to look that one up...means blindly devoted to your home team....or something like that.....).

Guess I'll just slink back into my dinosaur lair, kick around a few bones and try not to say anything nice about Vans. Time to turn the Vans universe over to the new guys with all the answers to marketing in the current world. Maybe Vans will get this figured out eventually.

Don't know how in the world I ever managed to get my plane built in the "dark ages".......
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 12-15-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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  #30  
Old 12-15-2012, 04:59 PM
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