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View Poll Results: RV14 Customer Support.
I feel Vans customer support is fine as is for the RV14. 39 81.25%
Vans needs to step up their Customer Support for the RV14 on the Engine and Avionics. 9 18.75%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:27 PM
Jetguy's Avatar
Jetguy Jetguy is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, Fort Worth
Posts: 1,237
Question Vans Customer Service for the RV-14!

There seems to be an interesting phenomenon going on these days on different threads on the form. It concerns customer service. What should we as builders of a $90,000.00 airplanes expect from Vans? With the on coming of the new philosophy we see emerging at Vans with each new kit lets step back and think about a few things. When I say new philosophy I mean the, "all inclusive kit design". Where Vans would like you to build it their way. And you buy all the sub kits from them including Engine, Avionics, interior, and wiring harness . I can see where this will increase safety as well as increase more competed kits. Also it will bring in more first time builders. Which in turn increases more sales of aircraft for Vans. As builders we are witnessing Vans Aircraft evolve into a new larger company, no longer just a cottage kit manufacture but now moving into the big time possibly selling more planes than Cirrus. RV4, RV6, RV7, RV8, RV9, RV10, RV12, in agreement with another company factory built RV12s and now the RV14. My crystal ball estimates with a global market maybe 6 to 7 new kits or more a day are ordered.
In April 2008 Vans released the first wing sub kit for the RV12, an all inclusive kit including everything you need to complete and fly the airplane at a price of about $67,500.00. Around 200 kits have been completed and are now flying. Serial numbers are over 700. Now we begin the RV14, serial numbers are somewhere past 30 and counting. Estimated cost for a completed kit around $90,000.00. When I compare this cost to other things in life where I have spent this kind of money I would have demanded a very high level of customer service, is it wrong for me the want it on this new kit?
I think their airframe support is par none. But I want support on the avionics and the engine. Here is my customer service wish list.
1 Digitized plans as well as printed ones.
2 A faster response to a faxed in order for a new kit, email followed by the postcard with an estimated delivery date followed by another email with a tracking number when it is shipped.
3 A separate phone tree tech support line for avionics as well as engine.
4 A revision bar on each new revised page to show what has changed on that page.
Feel free to add to my list or shoot me down if I'm asking to much!
I have my body armor on so fire away!
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John
RV12 N1212K
Flying Since June 2010
1020 Hours as of 9/30/2017
Johnrv12@icloud.com
RV14 Wing, arrived and building at Rdog's new Hanger at 16X
S/N 140014
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:52 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
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OK, I'm a 12 builder and this is a 14 thread, but:

1. Agreed. They already publish pdf updates on-line, so a CD with the complete plans for each sub-kit would be useful although not essential.
2. Living this far from the factory, I have no complaints with their present level of service. It's pretty good.
3. Haven't ever used phone support, but email response to the few queries I've had has always been quick. Agree that engine and avionics support could be improved for 12/14 type integrated kits, or at least better liaison by Vans with the OEM's. Sometimes interface issues can fall through the cracks - like the Rotax engine mount cap screws working loose on the 12. Both Vans and Rotax seemed to take a back seat on that one.
4. Yes - standard engineering practice 101.

Looking at it another way, Van's decision to offer such a high level of integration with the new kits is probably the biggest improvement in customer service they could have made.
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RV-12LR 912ULS
120346

Last edited by rgmwa : 12-13-2012 at 12:53 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:48 AM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
Posts: 3,507
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There is only one flying example and design work is not finished on all the other stuff you want.

What you want is not free and will cost more than most homebuilders are willing to pay.

To get Avionics support like you want, you are going to have to pay Certificated airplane prices or more and no one person will be able to answer all the questions on the options that you picked. As homebuilders, we do our own research and teach ourselves because most of the time, we are at the cutting edge of technology and no one or very few have done what we have done.

How are you going to get info on engine options when only one aircraft has been built and only one engine has been installed in it so far.

Are you willing to PAY an Engineer and his staff to get all this info you want? In the past, the homebuilder does his own research. IF he wants all the stuff you are asking for, he goes and buys a certificated airplane. (or someone elses homebuilt.)

I for one do not want Van's or expect to get what you are asking for from Van's Aircraft. The prices of their kits would quadraple to give what you are asking for.

Better start looking at buying a flying airplane. What you are asking for does not exist in the homebuilders kit world.

The RV-12 is an LSA or E-LSA aircraft and that falls under a different set of regulations than what the RV-14 falls under.
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Where is N157GS
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To most people, the sky is the limit.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:52 AM
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RDOG RDOG is offline
 
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Location: Propwash Airport (16X), Texas
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I would like to know the size and weight of each kit subsection so I can plan on how to handle each crate when it comes in.
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Colin Richardson
RV14, Kit #140014
ATP, CFI, Ground Instructor, A&P
colinr@sbcglobal.net
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:40 AM
N208ET N208ET is offline
 
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Location: St. Helens OR
Posts: 429
Default LOL

The guys that built old RV3's, 4's, and 6's are laughing their heads off.

Randy
8A
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:47 AM
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Lemmingman Lemmingman is offline
 
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Location: McKinney, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDOG View Post
I would like to know the size and weight of each kit subsection so I can plan on how to handle each crate when it comes in.
Keep your eye on this link for that data when it gets recorded.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/weights.pdf
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Gil Brice
McKinney, TX EAA-1246
RV7 - Working on fuse, fuel, brakes etc...
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:14 AM
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KatieB KatieB is offline
 
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Location: Stilwell, KS
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Even though Van's offers plug and play options for avionics to make wiring more convenient, the primary mission of their techs should be airframe support because nobody else is the expert on that.

If you choose GRT avionics for your RV-14, call us with your questions, and we will be glad to help you. We are RV builders too.
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Katie Bosman
RV-3B sold, but flying!
Next project: ???
Builders gonna build...
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:38 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Location: North Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N208ET View Post
The guys that built old RV3's, 4's, and 6's are laughing their heads off.

Randy
8A
You got that right!!

The time spent (wasted?) on polling about customer service could be better spent on researching the decisions and options needed to build the plane. The current kits and customer service are already far beyond what a builder needs to complete a safe aircraft.
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Sam Buchanan
RV-6
Fokker D.VII replica

Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 12-13-2012 at 08:53 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:52 AM
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hydroguy2 hydroguy2 is offline
 
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Location: Townsend, Montana
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Yeah, I want it now and cheaper too!......seems to be alot of that in life these days.

I support Vans current business model. They supply a great kit and support for all of them(even the 30yr old design). If a builder wants to deviate from the supplied or recommended kit, they have always been free to do so.


BTW-I went to the Chevy dealer and tried to order a 67 RS/SS Camero, but wanted it with a new 400hp FI motor and 6spd....turns out they don't support 40 yr old cars.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2012, 09:22 AM
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EdH EdH is offline
 
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Location: Bristol, UK.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
As builders we are witnessing Vans Aircraft evolve into a new larger company, no longer just a cottage kit manufacture but now moving into the big time possibly selling more planes than Cirrus.
No disrespect John, but I think that statement is about 12 years too late! When Van's built their new facility at Aurora they were already well past "cottage kit manufacture".
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RV-3B G-CCTG - Purchased May 2020
RV-8 G-MIRV - First flight 1 July 2019
RV-6 G-BZRV - Flown the nest.
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