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POSTING RULES

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12-06-2012, 10:01 AM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 753
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ADS-B position source
Well, I'm hoping not to drift to far on this thread, but I'm wondering how they (the FAA and ATC) are going to police whether the ADS-B "out" signal that we will be sending out to them will be from a "certified" GPS source (such as a a 430/530, 650/750) or from an "non-certified" source, such as could be derived from a WAAS G3X? I'm loaded for bear with my Garmin GTX 23 ES transponder, WAAS G3X, and GDL 39, but I'm not going to spend 10-15k on a "certified" GPS that I don't need as a VFR pilot, just to send a little "position" signal to ATC. I really hope the rules change a little or that someone comes out with a VERY inexpensive little GPS that could easily be intergraded into my setup such as mine so that I can be "legal".
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12-06-2012, 10:08 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 12
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iFly 720 and ADS-B
Steve,
This is Shane with Adventure Pilot. Yes, the iFly 720 can connect to several ADS-B devices. You can visit our site and/or contact me and I'd be happy to provide you with all the information you need. Here is a basic rundown.
Currently the iFly 700 and 720 support a host of ADS-B receivers from third party manufacturers. While the iFly 700 uses the USB connection, the iFly 720 supports Wi-Fi and this increases the expandability options.
iFly 720 Supported ADS-B Receivers (Wi-Fi and USB):
-SkyRadar (Original, L Models, S Models and D Models) via Wi-Fi.
-NavWorx (ADS-600, ADS-600B) via USB to Serial connection.
-Stratus (Beta via Wi-Fi)
-Clarity (All Models currently in development for Clarity's Mar 2013 release)
-FreeFlight (Ranger and Xplorer in development)
-iLevel (In development for product release)
iFly 700 Supported ADS-B Receivers (USB):
-SkyRadar (Original, L Models, S Models and D Models) via USB connection
-NavWorx (ADS-600, ADS-600B) via USB to Serial connection
-FreeFlight (Ranger and Xplorer in development) via USB connection
You mentioned an Antenna. With the iFly GPS, it is not necessary to use the antenna with an ADSB-Receiver. I use the SkyRadar, connected via Wi-Fi to my 720, whis is panel mounted in my 172 (I know, I'm itching for a RV-8 w/ tall option). Mine is panel mounted in a AirGizmo and I still run on the internal GPS antenna.
I actually attached one of our batteries to the SkyRadar and I can just charge it up and take it from plane to plane. It gets about 6-8 hours of In-Air Weather. Very cool.
As for waiting for a "iFly 740", I don't know where "740" came from, as we don't have any plans to move from the 720 anytime soon. We are always looking at the market, but it is not our desire to constantly put out units each year or so like the tablet or mobile market. That is the beauty of the iFly and it's software, we update it so you get the new features without being forced to upgrade the unit, (hardware features excluded like sunlight readable screen or Wi-Fi).
I hope this helps, an I'd love to answer any questions. I just don't want overstep the boundaries. Just providing information to fellow pilots, and hopefully a RV owner/builder soon.
Thanks,
Shane Woodson
Adventure Pilot
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12-06-2012, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark33
Well, I'm hoping not to drift to far on this thread, but I'm wondering how they (the FAA and ATC) are going to police whether the ADS-B "out" signal that we will be sending out to them will be from a "certified" GPS source (such as a a 430/530, 650/750) or from an "non-certified" source, such as could be derived from a WAAS G3X? I'm loaded for bear with my Garmin GTX 23 ES transponder, WAAS G3X, and GDL 39, but I'm not going to spend 10-15k on a "certified" GPS that I don't need as a VFR pilot, just to send a little "position" signal to ATC. I really hope the rules change a little or that someone comes out with a VERY inexpensive little GPS that could easily be intergraded into my setup such as mine so that I can be "legal".
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Me believes that you have now identified the crux of the problem.. Now, to meet the 2020 mandate it costs big bucks if you're starting from scratch. 
__________________
Jerry "Widget" Morris
RV 8, N8JL, 3,000+ hours on my 8.
VAF #818
Saint Simons Island, GA. KSSI
PIF 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
 I just wish I could afford to live the way I do
Last edited by RV8iator : 12-06-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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12-06-2012, 08:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark33
Well, I'm hoping not to drift to far on this thread, but I'm wondering how they (the FAA and ATC) are going to police whether the ADS-B "out" signal that we will be sending out to them will be from a "certified" GPS source (such as a a 430/530, 650/750) or from an "non-certified" source, such as could be derived from a WAAS G3X? I'm loaded for bear with my Garmin GTX 23 ES transponder, WAAS G3X, and GDL 39, but I'm not going to spend 10-15k on a "certified" GPS that I don't need as a VFR pilot, just to send a little "position" signal to ATC. I really hope the rules change a little or that someone comes out with a VERY inexpensive little GPS that could easily be intergraded into my setup such as mine so that I can be "legal".
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They don't have to because the technology will do it for them....
I also don't know why people keep coming up with that "10-15k" number for a certified GPS. I can get you a brand spankin new certified unit for less than $4k....
Cheers,
Stein
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12-07-2012, 09:45 AM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir
They don't have to because the technology will do it for them....
I also don't know why people keep coming up with that "10-15k" number for a certified GPS. I can get you a brand spankin new certified unit for less than $4k....
Cheers,
Stein
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Stein,
Interesting....so I guess there's part of the signal that's different if it's being transmitted from a certified unit VS a non certified unit? Regarding the 10-15k price range for a certified GPS, I was referring to the 430/530-650/750. But with that in mind, what certified unit can you supply for under 4k? What's your thoughts on the FreeFlight system and Specifically the FreeFlight 1201?? Would this integrate well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES? I really don't have room in my panel for another GPS but it looks like the 1201 would be remotely mounted. Would this system play well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES?
Thanks
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12-07-2012, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark33
Stein,
Interesting....so I guess there's part of the signal that's different if it's being transmitted from a certified unit VS a non certified unit? Regarding the 10-15k price range for a certified GPS, I was referring to the 430/530-650/750. But with that in mind, what certified unit can you supply for under 4k? What's your thoughts on the FreeFlight system and Specifically the FreeFlight 1201?? Would this integrate well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES? I really don't have room in my panel for another GPS but it looks like the 1201 would be remotely mounted. Would this system play well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES?
Thanks
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Just simply purchase a Garmin 400W - It can be had for less than $4K. The Freeflight is not a good fit with most of the current experimental EFIS systems, plus it's only en-route/non precision...though it would likely cover the requirements for ADSB if there were a way to interface it. Mind you Freeflight is an excellent company with excellent products, but given the fact that receiver is around $3K, it just doesn't make sense.
Cheers,
Stein
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12-07-2012, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir
Just simply purchase a Garmin 400W - It can be had for less than $4K.
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No doubt a well intentioned suggestion but the notion that we have to pay $4000 (and more for the ADS-B Out transmitter) is nonsense. I am still of the opinion that this needs to be dropped for GA aircraft below TBD feet. I would want that altitude to be low 20k feet to accommodate some GA IFR traffic.
Last edited by Ron Lee : 12-07-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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12-07-2012, 02:59 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir
Just simply purchase a Garmin 400W - It can be had for less than $4K. The Freeflight is not a good fit with most of the current experimental EFIS systems, plus it's only en-route/non precision...though it would likely cover the requirements for ADSB if there were a way to interface it. Mind you Freeflight is an excellent company with excellent products, but given the fact that receiver is around $3K, it just doesn't make sense.
Cheers,
Stein
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Well, I may have to wait and keep my fingers crossed that garmin (or someone that plays well with garmin) comes out with a remote mount unit that's reasonably priced. Besides not wanting to spend a fortune on something that doesn't really benefit me at all (it's only to tell the FAA where I'm at), I just don't have room in my panel for another full blown GPS...that's what made the FreeFlight setup look attractive.... even though it is pricy as well.
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12-07-2012, 03:22 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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I think most folks will be able to afford a UAT or replace their old xpdr with a mode S when the time comes, the bigger question is really the GPS source requirement. Currently the cheapest GPS that meets the spec that I am aware of is the FF 1201, but at 3K that is definately not cheap.
I am also not sure of the 1201 compatability with the Garmin stuff, however, the 1201 and the Trig units work together and have already been STC'd as a certified ADS-B out system.
Hopefully at some point "they" will rethink the GPS out requirement and allow an "approved" VFR GPS to fullfill the requirement.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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12-07-2012, 03:59 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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I can certainly concurr with everyone about the pricing being just too expensive at this point. That said, you don't have to go buy something RIGHT NOW. You functionally can use your G3X or portable GPS or whatever for the time being, then just wait awhile and see what comes down the road. I've been selling ADSB boxes like crazy, but I've repeatedly been telling people to just hold off on the whole certified GPS thing right now (unless you're going to put in a 430W or GTN anyway)....because you don't have to do it tomorrow, or next year, or even in 5 years. It's certain that a LOT will change between now and then.
With that in mind, I still can't see someone spending $3K for a remote mount GPS box that is doing absolutely nothing for you navigation wise, only to support a mandate that is 7 years away. If you're going to spend that $3K on a remote mount GPS box, and you also have an SL30, then you're about 75% of the way to a GTN650 and nearly 90% of the cost of a 430W. Both of which are quite a lot more useful as a whole.
I realize in some instances space is a concern, but not enough of a concern to me that I'd blow $3K on a box just for ADSB!
That's just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
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