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12-05-2012, 07:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
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Missed point
chrish you missed my point. I'm talking about the RV pilot on the ground who sees an airborne RV do something the he doesn't like or understand (ahem Overhead) and says "'that guy is an idiot and a cowboy and RV pilots are complacent and we must form a peer review committee and immediately exert our collective pressure to abate this overly risk seeking behavior as it is our moral imperative to do so otherwise our insurance rates will triple, the FAA will ban EAB aircraft and most certainly the sky will fall....."
That guy needs to stay on the other side of the ramp if its me he's talking about cause it ain't gonna go well if he pulls that cr*p....
A healthy debate on the merits, legality and technique of any given aviation activity is beneficial and should be encouraged but at least be open minded enough to accept the behavior discussed may have operational merit under proper circumstances and the PIC of the aircraft is in best position to make that call -reg violations excluded. That's what 30 yrs of military and GA flying taught me anyway...it's possible however I'm out to lunch.
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12-05-2012, 07:22 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Antonio area
Posts: 86
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"I think there is a big difference between doing something that involves risk and being reckless."
Ha! Sorry, but that statement made me chuckle a little bit. It reminds me of when somebody tells somebody to use some common sense. You do realize there is no such thing?
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12-05-2012, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 53
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RV8R999, like most things, there is a large grey area, but overall, I agree with you. There will still be, however, be extremes of behaviour that will make you ask the question 'What were you doing', especially if it involved a breach of airmanship that impacts a third person's safety. I also think it can make a difference who says something. For example, when in the military I would often be the 'duty instructor' sitting in the tower behind the ATC officers. If I saw something I did not like, I would call the student on it.
artrose, you are right about the comparison to common sense. I tried to pick my words carefully, with reckless being 'the carrying out of an action without thinking about the consequences'. I hoped that conveyed my thoughts adequately, but perhaps there is someone out there who might be better able to articulate those thoughts.
Cheers,
Chris
Last edited by rv6rick : 12-05-2012 at 09:25 PM.
Reason: removed expletive
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12-05-2012, 08:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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By definition, "extremes" of behavior are rare...
...But how often are threads started simply because someone saw something being done that the observer "didn't like"?
BIG difference.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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12-05-2012, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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What I would like to see is fewer fatalities. Anyone can read where the problem areas are. Some are nebulous (maneuvering) and tell me nada.
Every fatality is someone's son, husband, father, friend. I doubt that there are many people who die flying who want to leave loved ones behind to suffer the anguish of their loss.
Several years ago at the LOE fly-in in Las Cruces, a non-RV aircraft was reported to depart with two people on board and flew into a storm cell of some sort. Not long afterwards, smoke from the wreckage was observed. Two fatalities. Again, the report was that one person on that plan had a daughter and that that day was her birthday. It was a needless accident since they could have left sooner, later or the next day and made it home safely. Instead, two families had to deal with their deaths.
I have done things that others may consider risky. Beaucoup parachute jumps, rafting, scuba diving, flying to the Bahamas and Cayman Islands, blind dates.
But I have my limits. No mountain flying at night. I don't press fuel reserves. I avoid unreasonable get-there-itis. Weather can halt a trip easily and does often.
In the past there was a long thread about overhead approaches. Personally I do them on occasion. I like watching them. Some would look better if they added smoke but I digress.
If our RV pilot community would just think about their flying and avoid grossly stupid actions, especially where they put others at risk; think about their family and friends before allowing the chain of events to get them killed then the smaller issues about whether an overhead approach is good or bad or an early turnout is good or bad may become trivial.
Most of these fatalities are preventable. Being a better pilot so that you do not become a fatality does not mean that you can't enjoy your plane.
Let's enjoy our planes, live to see those we love at the end of the day and quit worrying if we enjoy flying in a manner that is more fun than a Cessna 172.
Last edited by Ron Lee : 12-05-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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12-05-2012, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mountain Southwest
Posts: 168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder
Discussion is good, but unfortunately, there is very little of that in threads like this. These threads are about passing judgment, and that is a waste of time in the big scheme of things. OTOH, if we were discussing how to properly execute a steep climbing turn at midfield - then there would be some value.
IIRC, George Carlin has a joke that essentially says: anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac, but anyone slower is a moron...
...seems to apply here.
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VERY well said!!
Interesting to me that nobody is too excited over the 5-6 million auto accidents each year but 70-ish GA accidents are cause to eliminate aviation.
__________________
JD
RV-4 - 160HP O-320 - Sensenich GA
RV-3B - O-320 - "Daisy" (sold)
http://jdfinley.com
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12-06-2012, 06:59 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 1,187
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For me, this thread is about perceptions. A non-pilot type would see a climbing turn after lift-off overflying the airport buildings as, "neat-o, that is so cool". Pilots, who are trained in standard pattern procedures would say, "that is not cool and contrary to what we have been trained."
I saw this at my home airport and thought "not cool" regardless of the fact that I knew the pilot and that he is very skilled.
I saw this again from a departing RV at SNF a couple years ago. The departure procedure states that aircraft maintain runway heading for 3 miles after departing. This particular RV turned almost immediately after breaking ground and flew overhead as we were at the HBC area getting packed up. Maybe the RV had clearance to do that but I doubt it.
So, I think that although we may be skilled and have capable airplanes, we need to be aware of the perceptions we create when we do what is unexpected or non-standard. Small planes and their pilots don't need any more negative press.
__________________
Bruce Sacks
RV-9 N659DB - Flying since 7/1/06
Hatz CB-1 - Fabric covering with Polyfiber.
Warner Robins, GA
A&P
APRS KJ4EFS
Last edited by bsacks05 : 12-06-2012 at 07:03 AM.
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12-06-2012, 11:20 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Taylor Texas
Posts: 811
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tongue in cheek
Overheard at the airport:
observer 1: Why do those Rocket guys always climb out so steeply?
observer 2: Because they CAN!
Let's face it fellas: our planes' power to weight ratio could be described as "Adequate Overkill". Some, like the Rockets and Rocketized-RVs, have what could be called a bit more than adequate. Some of you may already know this...you know who you are.
So, what may look like a VERY steep climb could actually be a simple Vx exercise.  Heck, in some cases, it could be a Vy exercise!
Perception.
Come to think of it, a 65HP Cub (low fuel, single pilot) would be 'adequate' on a 30F day with 15KT down the runway!
My hope is that those 'practicing' such maneuvers know how critical it is to get the nose down if the fan coughs...
Carry on!
Mark
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12-06-2012, 12:14 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
Posts: 1,523
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Scrambled Brains
Man, after reading all this I don't know where I stand on anything.
Keep the blue side up,,, most of the time and think safe.
__________________
Jerry "Widget" Morris
RV 8, N8JL, 3,000+ hours on my 8.
VAF #818
Saint Simons Island, GA. KSSI
PIF 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
 I just wish I could afford to live the way I do
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12-06-2012, 12:49 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8iator
Man, after reading all this I don't know where I stand on anything.
Keep the blue side up,,, most of the time and think safe.
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Says the man whose profile picture has the blue side down 
__________________
Ian
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