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12-04-2012, 02:33 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coventry. England
Posts: 614
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Brakes
The only aspect of RV performance I have found to be poor is the braking. I had all RV4 gear in my Tailwind, and in all the RV's I have flown they are the same.
Having said that I guess a 4 could be provoked into going onto its nose with heavy braking with the tail up, or not in the 3 point attitude.
I can squat 300lbs so have exerted a lot of pressure on the brakes on occasions. Once I bent the brake levers on a KIS, trying to get some braking out of it. The owner never told me that the brakes had air in the system before he asked me to taxi it???
But, weakish brakes are a good thing from the not nosing over point of view. More likely you would go over in a rut or something and for this to happen you would be having a very bad day in the office!!
The reason why I chimed in is because the way this thread was going it sounded like there was a real problem with 4's ending upside down. I am not saying its impossible but as I said the least of my worries in a 4..... the 9 on grass thats a different story.
__________________
http://www.aerobuilder.blogspot.com
Steve Arnold
England
In completion stage of Loehle P5151
Built and now Flying G.BVLR Vans RV4
Rebuilt G.BDBD Tailwind
Rebuilt G BVTN Kitfox
Built G CDCD RV9A with WAM120
Riveted wings on Glastar G.LEZZ Now (G. SKUA)
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12-04-2012, 06:34 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fayetteville, GA
Posts: 164
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Eject the canopy
The RV-4 canopy is designed to be ejected is it comes open in flight. If you find yourself in a situation requiring an off airport landing you can eject the canopy. I have talked to numerous people that forgot to latch the canopy and had it depart the aircraft. If you do eject it don't let your hand get caught on the handle. The canopy departs instantaneously. The aircraft flies ok without the canopy but it sure makes you eyes water. I have yet to find anyone who forgot to latch it twice ( myself included ).
__________________
Tommy Turner
Fayetteville GA
RV-4 sold
RV-6 sold
RV-8 Flying
RV-14A building
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12-04-2012, 07:02 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: George West, TX
Posts: 567
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Amen Brother!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturner
The RV-4 canopy is designed to be ejected is it comes open in flight. If you find yourself in a situation requiring an off airport landing you can eject the canopy. I have talked to numerous people that forgot to latch the canopy and had it depart the aircraft. If you do eject it don't let your hand get caught on the handle. The canopy departs instantaneously. The aircraft flies ok without the canopy but it sure makes you eyes water. I have yet to find anyone who forgot to latch it twice ( myself included ).
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Install the canopy as per Vans plans and IT WILL SEPARATE FROM YOUR AIRCRAFT PRONTO ZIPPO GONE ADIOS AMEGO!!!! I have first hand experience. Explosive bolts are NOT necessary. Indeed, get your hand out of the way & have your eyes squinted because you are going to experience an immediate environmental change. I could be wrong; but my experience seemed like it took approximately 0.00002 nano microseconds (is there such a time measurement??  ) for canopy to depart & completely clear the aircraft. Getting the canopy OFF my flying -4 is now the LEAST of my concerns.
Cheers & wishing everyone safe & happy flying,
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Deal Fair
RV-4 (N34CB)
George West, TX (8T6)
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12-04-2012, 07:08 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 2,182
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Only problem with the ejecting canopy theory is that in many rollovers, the pilot doesn't know for sure that the plane is gonna nose over until well into the ground rollout, then there is not enough airflow over the fuselage to rip the canopy off, and at that point the pilot probably already is preoccupied with other issues.
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Neal Howard
Airplaneless once again...
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12-04-2012, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal@F14
Only problem with the ejecting canopy theory is that in many rollovers, the pilot doesn't know for sure that the plane is gonna nose over until well into the ground rollout, then there is not enough airflow over the fuselage to rip the canopy off, and at that point the pilot probably already is preoccupied with other issues.
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My point exactly.. This is where having another option besides soft rivets that allow the canopy to exit IN flight.
__________________
Tyler Arnold
Iowa, La
Piper Colt
RV-4 wings and empennage
VAF Supporter! 2012, 2013
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12-04-2012, 08:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal@F14
Only problem with the ejecting canopy theory is that in many rollovers, the pilot doesn't know for sure that the plane is gonna nose over until well into the ground rollout, then there is not enough airflow over the fuselage to rip the canopy off, and at that point the pilot probably already is preoccupied with other issues.
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Seems like one must be disciplined (somehow) to mitigate the risk of being alone and upside-down. I guess reduce the fun factor by deciding to flight plan along populated routes to be able to land on a road, or in a built-up area dodging the hazards as best as possible. Must be able and trained to get the ELT and EPIRB working in the air, and hope they still function after the abrupt stop. Dang, what about a 12 with the built-in barbque?  I fly a RANS S-19 with gas in the wings behind the spare and have been told the canopy will be a challenge to open on short final due to airflow and provides structure to absorb the impact. After that the locals need to be running in your direction. Lastly, and sad to say, a Cherokee went over in the local shoreline shallows and they couldn't get the doors open laying in the mud. Perhaps, if one can swim or float, its best to ditch farther out to have clearance for the canopy to open.
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12-04-2012, 08:36 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Posts: 27
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Simple thoughts
Not an expert by any means, but for the most part if you read a lot of airducts posts and then see his replies he makes to comments (if any), it appears as though he is in the decision matrix on whether or not to build an RV4. So I think on the matter of rollovers, there are some very simple yet overlooked solutions.
1. Don't purchase or build an RV4 - this is perhaps the easiest solution to preventing RV4 rollovers altogether, by not flying one.
2. If you must own one, don't rollover - again, it seems simple, and it actually is. Sacrifice on the landing to prevent a rollover.
3. Make sure the ELT is where you can reach it, and activate it. A back-up to this is a PLBor even a hand held radio. This makes sure that no matter where you land, help will be along shortly.
4. If your fear is fire, get a good system (hand pull, cylinder, whatever floats your boat).
5. If your fear is being trapped in by the plexiglass/lexan, keep something that can break, puncture, or structurally weaken it. A good .357 and a ballpeen hammer work nicely and I have extracted many pilots from downed aircraft on CSAR missions with less (a pathetic 9mm and an E-tool).
See the utter simplicity of the logic? No special contraptions needed and no complex procedures. If all else fails, just refer back to item number one.
Yes...I know the shooting gallery may open up on this posting, but hey, I am a simple redneck from the southeast who just happens to be transplanted to Kalifornia, I wouln't take advice from me either.
__________________
Jason Bernhardsen
Cessna 172 The Phoenix
RV-4 In Progress
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12-05-2012, 12:06 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: George West, TX
Posts: 567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar591
My point exactly.. This is where having another option besides soft rivets that allow the canopy to exit IN flight.
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Well, I will argue it does not take much. I was on the ground on take off roll. I WAS NOT FLYING!! I did have WOT & was doing about 40 mph. The canopy DEPARTED FROM THE PLANE!!! I am just telling you what happened to me in my RV-4. I shut down the take off, unstrapped, stood up in the seat, turned around, saw my canopy about a hundred yards back & started screaming a bunch of expletives!!!
__________________
Deal Fair
RV-4 (N34CB)
George West, TX (8T6)
Last edited by dealfair : 12-05-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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12-05-2012, 04:30 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: McMinnville, Oregon: HOME of the SPRUCE GOOSE
Posts: 540
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evac
Evac on RV flip:
Canopy:
Firearm= simple and effective, (fuel leaking makes firearm an EVAC no go)
Large knife= Recommend US military M9 bayonet (light; strong; back side fine saw that would work cutting aluminum; dig; penetrate hard or rocky soil; stab canopy and aluminum; build tool for shelter; lash to stick for a speer to gain food; defense from predators; cut green material to put on your rescue fire to make smoke; dig trench to route rain water around your sleep area; razor to shave so you look good at rescue :-) ;can opener to open your canned survival food to eat until rescue; etc...)
Carry both if you can. Good investment for safety on two levels.
Dual purpose gear for a remote landing as EVAC equipment then survival.
Remember, not a lot of swinging room in a -4.
__________________
Tailwinds...
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Leonardo Da Vinci
Working on a RV-4
Citabria 7GCBC
Cessna 180
RV7 I0-360 C/S, Slider, AP, Glass, etc. sold.
RV6 O-320 F/P, Slider, AP, Steam, etc., sold
Citabria 7KCAB rental
Piper Cherokee, sold
Sparrowhawk, sold
Proud -VAF- Supporter - Exempt, Dues Paid Anyway.
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12-05-2012, 12:43 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liberty, MO
Posts: 252
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Firearm Evacuation technique
What is the technique that you would use a firearm to evac through a RV canopy? I would think that a single shot would create an opening but pretty small. I have shot through a car windshield in training and the 9mm hole was about 9mm.... Maybe a "connect the dots" approach would work better. I like the idea of the M-9 bayonet and have one needing a mission.
Thanks,
John
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