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  #1  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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Cadstat Cadstat is offline
 
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Default RV Complacency

I've observed too many RV pilots hanging it on the prop just after takeoff, initiate a rigth turn over the terminal building and rows of hangers. They aren't the only ones showboating over the restraurant and heading south over the river and woods toward the home airport. They may save 30 seconds of flight time but not their lives. The remaining 5000+ ft of runway could come in handy in the event of a loss of power. I believe some RV drivers have grown complacent with the high power to weigth ratio and are lulling themselves into a false feeling of security thinking that prop won't stop 'until I say so'. Over the 40 plus years I've lost a cylinder on takeoff and total power failure twice just after breaking ground. All uneventful with useable runway straight ahead.
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:20 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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This is the exact cowboy antics that has been at the core of Dick's regular articles in the Vans Safety Corner.

It often is the core factor in experimental and namely RV accidents.

Generally speaking we do not fly unsafe aircraft. But we do have an element among us that seem to think these antics are ok.

The best thing to do is apply peer pressure. Rules don't work.

Great post, keep the pressure on them, because if too many fools kill themselves and passengers, the FAA, CAA's and CASA's of the world will kill of our industry.

It is that simple.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:37 AM
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Yes, I agree. It takes a twin to do that early turn over the tower safely.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:03 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
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I hope people understand, it's not just RV pilots or pilots of AHB aircraft. I think every segment has its own problems. Often, it extends from whatever capability the aircraft excels at.

I know a number of certified aircraft pilots who regularly fly over gross because, while those airplanes may not be fast, with a long enough runway, they will go and go. I still remember my PPL check ride. I didn't think how stupid and dangerous it might be to complete a flight over gross. It was a cold day, flat terrain, and long runway - we managed just 300FPM.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:51 AM
wrongway john wrongway john is offline
 
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This is your brain on complacency: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDu0jYiz-v8

One of countless examples.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:36 AM
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N395V N395V is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzbill View Post
Yes, I agree. It takes a twin to do that early turn over the tower safely.
I think an early turn and hanging on the props in a twin (in the event of engine failure) is far more dangerous than in a single engine plane.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:07 AM
John R. Graham John R. Graham is offline
 
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I think that was a joke.

- John
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:19 AM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
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So why exactly do you believe an early turn is dangerous or even cowboyish?

at some point in the take-off sequence the ruwnay ahead becomes unusable based on altitude, speed, wind, etc... which will be different for each aircraft. At my 4000ft runway I'm at 200ft AGL by 2000ft at 120mph. If my engine quits at that point I am not going to make the runway at safe landing speeds and on the South runway I have a kiddie/dog park in front of me. I'm turning as soon as possible after take-off. If this makes me a cowboy then I'm happy to wear my boots.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:09 AM
luddite42 luddite42 is offline
 
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For those who are so highly safety-concerned, its seems there are much bigger fish to fry than a few RV guys making an early turn on climbout. Ken K is pretty well with it.

Are these guys displaying unsafe behavior by doing the same thing on t/o from a 2000' grass strip w/ trees at the end? Not everybody's at an airport with 6000' of runway in front of them. Are you going to call an RV pilot "unsafe" for flying into an airstrip so short that there are no emergency landing options in front of you on takeoff no matter what you do? Has the FAA identified early turns as a signficant percentage of accidents? Like I said, much much bigger fish to fry.

So it seems some are uptight about the fact that some may fly in a way that could possibly limit their landing options in the event of a power loss. How do you know some of these guys don't have an open area picked out on either side of the runway if something happens. What about the guys who drag in 2 mile 3-degree approaches? Aren't they limiting their landing options close to the ground in the event of a power loss? Yet, the modern training culture praises this as "stabilized" and "safe". A little more focus in the important stuff and a little less "marmishness" would be nice.

Last edited by luddite42 : 12-04-2012 at 10:31 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:13 AM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John R. Graham View Post
I think that was a joke.

- John
Yes it was, kinda'. I will do an early turnout every chance I can get at my 8000' class C tower controlled airport. The alternative is to be vectored to BF Egypt before being allowed to turn to heading.

I understand everybody has different personal levels of risk tolerance. I find this early turn point no different than the arguments about IFR or night or flying over water in singles vs twins. Especially since the argument point was engine failure and inability to return to runway. And yes I do understand the meager single engine performance of twins.
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ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.
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