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  #1  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:31 AM
cactusman cactusman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Default Breaking edges of Tailcone Skins

So on page 10-2 it talks about breaking the edges of the tailbone skins. I bypassed that and prepped the skins, deburred the holes and edges and just last night I installed one of the bottom corner skins (1282) non-broken and one broken with the avery tool (I have the cleaveland tool on order) - these are cleco'd only at this point.

iMHO, the non-broken skin edge overlap looks just fine, but keep in mind, I haven't actually riveted yet. On the aft stab skins, I just gently used a seamer to bend the skins in slightly and they turned out fine.

It strikes me that perhaps because we are using pulled rivets and the quality of the kits indicate that perhaps the traditional edge breaking techniques are not fully required?

Any feedback is appreciated. I see from previous archives on the site that perhaps the top skins require more breaking? Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:43 AM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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I came to the same conclusion from the same mistake. After riveting there was no indication of the results you are supposed to have from the rivets on an unbroken edge.
.[quote=
It strikes me that perhaps because we are using pulled rivets and the quality of the kits indicate that perhaps the traditional edge breaking techniques are not fully required?
.[/QUOTE]
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:53 AM
cactusman cactusman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I came to the same conclusion from the same mistake. After riveting there was no indication of the results you are supposed to have from the rivets on an unbroken edge.
.
So you think it is ok to rivet UNbroken skins provided they lie flush with the underlying skin while cleco'd?

The one I did break looks like ****. I mean it is on the bottom, and I guess it lies a little flatter - I really didn't break it that much and paint will fix all....but I really don't want to do any more edge breaking if I can help it.
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2012, 09:13 AM
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KALEWIS KALEWIS is offline
 
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Default

Wait for the Cleveland tool to arrive. Get a scrap piece of aluminum, doesn't have to be 8' long.... Practice for 10 minutes then break the skins. You will get a much better look on the tailcone. It's not a difficult skill to learn and will pay off when finished.
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2012, 09:16 AM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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I would never recommend anything different than the plans, but my experience showed it seemed to make no difference really.
Breaking the skins was a real learning process for me, did not seem like I could get the hang of it quickly. I was using the "vise grips with rollers" model. As previously stated, practice on some scrap a bit to get the hang of it. Once I got the hang of it there seemed to be less unsightly breaks. When done well, the effect seems to be slightly advantageous, not sure what it will look like after paint. The rivets do tend to pull the surfaces together and thereby lessen the break line.
Others will chime in I am sure, but I think it would not be a big deal if someone did not do any skin breaking on pop rivet construction.
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2012, 09:22 AM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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I bought the Cleaveland tool. It was easy to use and did a fine job. The break is surprisingly slight, except for the top rear skins where the plans have you form a more definite angle. Just run the tool along the edge, WITHOUT applying any extra downward pressure to force an angle. The correct break angle is formed by the rollers. As to whether the break is necessary or not, if the lap is between two flat sheets, I think you could probably get a good result without it. If the lap occurs where the sheets are curved, the break would be a good idea IMO. As you already have the Cleaveland tool on order, why not use it?
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:22 AM
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XOverZero XOverZero is offline
 
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Location: Irvine, CA
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Default Almost to this step...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmwa View Post
...except for the top rear skins where the plans have you form a more definite angle.
G'Day rgmwa: Also have the Cleaveland tool and will very soon be doing this step. Could you please clarify just a bit...were you able to gradually increase the break angle on the top skin with this tool, according to the plans (seems maybe not possible)? Or, did you disregard that part and simply made the break uniform over its full length?

Thanks in advance,
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:32 AM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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I just laid the skins on my work bench with the skin overlaying the edge and worked a wood block back and forth until I got a curve with the tangent line running through the center of the rivet holes. Quick, easy, cheap and it works!
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:21 AM
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txaviator txaviator is offline
 
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Default I used the Avery tool with GREAT success!

Not trying to downplay the folks that had trouble with this step, but 'breaking the skins' is quite easy! I used the tool from Avery. It looks like a black anodized, thin hockey puck, with two nylon rollers. Lay the skin on the workbench with just about 3/4" - 1" hanging over the edge. Gently apply outward and downward pressure on the top of the tool and work the tool in a fluid steady motion down the edge of the skin, pulling toward you. Not much pressure is required, and the actual 'bend is very very subtle. The rollers do all the work, based on your slight downward/outward pressure while pulling the tool toward you. It is NOT a radical / extreme bend. Once you've worked the tool down the edge, bend down and look down the edge of the skin. You can easily tell is there is an area you've not applied as much of a bend..if so, just work the tool back through that area. As I mentioned, I used the Avery tool with great success. Long after I used the Avery tool, I found a set of the vice-grip versions of edge breakers, that I forgot I had. I tried them on a piece of scrap, and it looked horrible! I suppose it is just whichever tool you feel the most comfortable with. I found it to be a quick and easy task. I can't stress enough though, that when breaking the edges, it is a VERY VERY subtle bend. Nothing major.

The plans call for doing this process again before you rivet on the fuselage (cockpit) side skins. It took all of about 45-seconds to 'break' the edge of each skin. Once rivets are installed, the skins can lay different than when just held on by clecos. I understand some folks didn't break the edges and their skins look fine. But I followed the plans to the letter, and all of my fuselage skins look fantastic. If someone is using the Avery style 'puck shaped' tool and is having problems, please send me a message and I will call you. I'd bet I could verbally walk you through just how simple it is. I'll be glad to help if I can.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:26 AM
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txaviator txaviator is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XOverZero View Post
G'Day rgmwa: Also have the Cleaveland tool and will very soon be doing this step. Could you please clarify just a bit...were you able to gradually increase the break angle on the top skin with this tool, according to the plans (seems maybe not possible)? Or, did you disregard that part and simply made the break uniform over its full length?

Thanks in advance,
I used the Avery 'puck-shaped' tool, so I'm not sure if it is similar to the Cleveland version? But yes, you simply apply more pressure to the area where you are required to put in more of a bend. I somewhat dreaded this step before I did it (not wanting to screw up a fuselage skin) just like the longeron bending. But both breaking the edges and the longeron bends both ended up being a non-stressful event, and turned out great. Breaking the skin edges is a very quick process.
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