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POSTING RULES

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11-25-2012, 12:36 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 21
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RV-4 Counterbalanced Rudder - again
Hello All,
Time to re-skin my rudder for rivet cracks. In the category of "doing way more than required for an otherwise simple repair" I have researched the option of converting to a counterbalanced rudder for an RV-4. Previous threads pointed to Dave Anders RV-4 as having one. It sounds like he built it but I can find no details on how other than one quick reference to a riveted trailing edge. Smoky posted something a long time ago about his buddy Hollywood having one on an RV-4, but no construction details there either. And other references herein for this topic are for RV-8 tails on an RV-4.
I'm aware of the need to keep tail weight to a minimum for CG considerations. So I'd prefer not to put an RV-8 tail on. I'd much rather keep to the overall dimensions of the RV-4 vertical empennage.
Also, doing anything that would reduce the probability of flutter and potentially increase Vne (to an RV-8 value or even better a Dave Anders CAFE value) seems like a great benefit! Along these lines, going from .016 skins to .020 skins to (possibly) assist in flutter reduction seems prudent.
Would anyone with first hand knowledge of building, modifying, or having details of a counterbalanced RV-4 rudder please chime in.
Thanks,
Tuna--
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11-26-2012, 08:20 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 20
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Rudder counter balance
Order 0.20 skin for the rudder, that will help with the cracking, and build it to plans, but add RTV in the trailing edge at the stiffner junctions, the RV-4 rudder never had a counter balance, and I have never experienced rudder flutter to date at 720 hrs. I fly at cruise with my feet stretched to the firewall under the pedals for comfort, no tension on the cables, with no flutter problems. Make it easy, builds to plans, the 4 is enough work without being prepunched. My 2cents.
Shawn Scott
RV-4 Bounty Hunter III
A&P
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11-26-2012, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 21
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Thanks Shawn. It's a continual back and forth over original or "improved" (?) rebuilding. I feel strongly both ways.  Mike--
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11-26-2012, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: VanAire, Co
Posts: 25
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Mike;
Several of us in CO have placed the entire RV8 emp on our RV4's. One is a 360 constant speed, and mine is an IO 320 fixed. We are both very pleased with the operation of the ship.
I changed mine because of damage at S&F 2011. The other was changed because "I wanted to". The weight is minimal. The "WOW factor" is great.
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11-26-2012, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cartersville, Georgia KVPC
Posts: 945
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Tuna,
Talk to Jay Pratt at RV Central. He modified a 4 vertical fin and rudder to incorporate an RV-8 counterbalance (NOT the entire RV-8 fin and rudder, just the counterbalance). This sounds more like what you were looking for in your original post.
Regards,
__________________
Moose
VAF #136
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11-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ione, California
Posts: 254
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8 Tail
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
Mike;
Several of us in CO have placed the entire RV8 emp on our RV4's. One is a 360 constant speed, and mine is an IO 320 fixed. We are both very pleased with the operation of the ship.
I changed mine because of damage at S&F 2011. The other was changed because "I wanted to". The weight is minimal. The "WOW factor" is great.
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What WOW? how did it benefit the performance handling or looks? What was wrong with the 4 original tail? Just need input.
RT
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11-26-2012, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,166
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 I will attach a photo of the rudder on my RV6. The aircraft was built by Robbie Attaway and has a balanced rudder. It is a small tailed six. I believe it is similar to Dave Anders. You can visit his website for contact info at Attawayair.com. He may be able to help you with the design.
George
Last edited by sailvi767 : 11-26-2012 at 06:31 PM.
Reason: Photo
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11-26-2012, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ____
Posts: 829
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I am with post#2. Check with John Harmon or at least look at his website and data for the HR III emp. I have not seen or heard of a problem.
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11-27-2012, 06:12 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 21
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Joel, Thanks for the input. I'm keeping the RV8 option on the back burner for now.
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Moose, Thanks. Wilco. Tuna--
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George, Thanks. That does indeed look like Dave Anders tail. I appreciate the info. Mike--
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F1R, Good point. I need to see if the overall dimensions of the HRII tail are the same as the 4. Tuna---
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11-27-2012, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Donie,Texas
Posts: 199
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I have purchased plans from John Harmon for the HR2 and HR3. Started on the 3 and was worried about the rudder, so I call and spoke with John. He told me he had engineers from NASA analize it and it's good to 400mph. The only difference in the HR3 emp is .020 skins. The HR3 has a Vne of 310mph, and I believe has been tested above that.
My .02- It's worth what you paid
__________________
Frank
RV6-N164FJ sold sadly
Legal Eagle w/Verner 3VW
Rans S7s
RV4- in progress
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