Ask a controller... (in memory of Tony Kelly - tkatc)

[tkatc]

We usually have them report a 5 or 3 mile initial for our F-16s. If I didn't need a report, I might just give a landing/option clearance and instructions on direction of break.

I assume you are asking because of the recent OVERHEAD thread. My take is, at towered airports, if the controller approves it, you are fine because the tower is providing some sort of separation from other aircraft. At non-towered fields, since this maneuver is not STANDARD, then aircraft desiring the overhead may do so, so long as other traffic is not affected.

Sort of like if you are running through the park, you yield to pedestrians on a leisurely stroll, you don't just run them over.

[RV8R999]

Originally Posted by tkatc

At non-towered fields, since this maneuver is not STANDARD, then aircraft desiring the overhead may do so, so long as other traffic is not affected.
.

This statement applies to any method of entry. No "pattern" has a regulatory protection of right-of-way over another at an UNCONTROLLED airport.

If call a 3 mile initial which is immediately followed by another pilot calling a 3 mile 45, I am not obligated to give way and neither is he. We will need to deconflict based upon speed and good courteous communication.

None of us OWN the pattern. If Im there first, the pattern is an overhead and the the other guy is the interloper and is bound by rules of common courtesy to adjust for me. If he is first, the pattern is a 45 and I am the interloper requiring me to adjust. Simple.

*** actually a little more thought on this right-of-way issue - for an airport with a left hand pattern the 45 traffic must give way to the overhead traffic since the overhead plane is to the others right and has right of way. On right hand pattern the overhead plane must give way.

PART 91.113
d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way.

[tkatc]

I've never seen a windsock (traffic pattern indicator/segmented circle) depict an overhead pattern left or right....

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a...apter%2013.pdf

Anyway, I won't argue semantics over non controlled fields. But aviation is built on common sense. No private pilot exam that I ever heard of included an overhead maneuver. It is not practiced or taught to private students, instrument students, commercial students, etc. from that, common sense tells me it is NOT a standard maneuver.

Should it be prohibited? NO!! Should it infringe on the rights of other aviators? NO!

[tkatc]

Been awhile!!

[bruceg]

Approaching abc on instruments and approach control asks if we have the abc weather. There's no weather reporting at abc and the approach plate says to use the xyz altimeter setting. So if we have the xyz weather, is the answer yes? Thanks.

[N526JS]

Hmmm, Been in a somewhat similar situation before. Best to say you have "xyz". Cleared up some confusion between ATC and myself at the time.

NOT AN EXPERT OPINION HERE. So take it for what it is worth (nothing).

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by tkatc

Anyway, I won't argue semantics over non controlled fields. But aviation is built on common sense. No private pilot exam that I ever heard of included an overhead maneuver. It is not practiced or taught to private students, instrument students, commercial students, etc. from that, common sense tells me it is NOT a standard maneuver.

And living right under an uncontrolled airport pattern, I highly agree. Even if it ticks off a few RVers....

Hardly anyone is going to have a clue of what the **** they're doing.

L.Adamson

[tkatc]

Originally Posted by bruceg

Approaching abc on instruments and approach control asks if we have the abc weather. There's no weather reporting at abc and the approach plate says to use the xyz altimeter setting. So if we have the xyz weather, is the answer yes? Thanks.

Bruce,
Sounds as though you got one of our inexperienced controllers there. It sounds as though they think there IS weather reporting there and want to fulfill the requirement of making sure the pilot has that report.

But as you stated, there probably ISN'T weather at that field. Especially if the plate is telling you to use a nearby altimeter. As the pilot, I would reply that there is no weather there but you do have the xyz altimeter. This will then either educate you (when they confirm there is actually reporting services) or you educate them so they won't make that mistake in the future.

I have said this before and still believe it... An airport with 3 letters as the identifier DOES have CERTIFIED weather while other airports that contain a combo of letters and numbers does NOT have certified weather. Someone argued this was not the case with me before but I think it boiled down to CERTIFIED vs non-certified weather stations. I haven't researched it all that much so I cannot speak on the differences between the classifications.

[humptybump]

Originally Posted by tkatc

An airport with 3 letters as the identifier has CERTIFIED weather while airports that contain a combo of letters and numbers DO NOT have certified weather.

I get to learn new stuff all the time - thanks for this helpful tidbit!

[ArVeeNiner]

Back in October I went on my first "long" trip in the RV from San Jose, CA to California City. I decided to file a flight plan and get flight following on the trip since I haven't done either one of those for years since I've been building.

Both went without a hitch but I had a question about ending flight following at the end of the trip. When I got close to the end of each leg, I asked to terminate. However, on the return trip, just before I was going to call and cancel, ATC asked me if I had the current ATIS at RHV. I told him that I hadn't but I wanted to terminate.

I guess I'm wondering what would have happened if I didn't terminate. Would he have given me the current ATIS and then stayed with me for a while longer? I'm guessing he would have. I was about 40 NM out when I terminated.

Next time I'll let it play out.