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10-29-2012, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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What model to build
Help please...
Ok, I have just about decided I want to build an RV. I've bought some tools, and I'm starting to play with the toolbox, and the sample project.
I "think" I want to build an RV-9A, but I want to be sure.
I have had a chance to fly an RV-6a, and an RV-9a (thanks Tonya!), and while they are both great, I liked the extra room in the 9, and I don't have a need/desire for aerobatics.
I'm 5' 10" 215, and my wife is 5' 3". I believe we would both have enough room to be comfortable on long trips in the 9, but should I consider the 14?
We currently own a Cessna Cardinal, and I'm looking for something that will be faster, and cheaper to operate (less fuel consumption).
I'll be looking to build the plane as a full IFR platform, and doing a lot of cross country flying.
I'm a little concerned about the nose wheel issues on the 9, is that warranted, or is the problem overblown?
I keep hearing that the 14 will be an easier kit to build? How much should that play into my thinking?
I've never attempted anything of quite this scale before, so I am really trying to make sure I make a fully informed decision.
Thanks,
-Dan
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10-29-2012, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 738
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Lots of opinions
IMHO the nose wheel issues of the -A models are overblown, but I'm sure
there will be those that disagree. As I recall, the early Cardinals had many PIO events.
You should have no problem with any of the RV -A models.
The -14 would be my choice (second to the -10) although with the
IO-390 it won't use less fuel than the Cardinal. The -9, -14 and -10
wings are more stable for IFR (although every RV model can and is flown IFR).
The new kits are so much better in terms of building ease. The little extra
cabin room of the -14 would be the deal maker for me. Buy you can't go wrong
with any choice you make. Good luck and welcome to the RV world!
__________________
Tom Prokop
Chino, CA
RV-8A,180/CS/Carb, AFS 4500 EFIS/EMS
RV-6, sold, 820 hrs of fun.
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10-29-2012, 09:40 AM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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I don't normally get into these "what model should I build" threads, because almost everyone tends to defend their own choices as "the right one"....but since the RV-14 is so new, and few have flown it, I figure I might contribute to the discussion. I'd have to say that your requirements very much match the mission for which it was designed. I flew both the -14 and the -9 back-to-back at the factory back in September, and the -14 is quite remarkable as a cruising machine - roomy, excellent visibility, plenty of baggage capacity. And yes, if you do decide that you want to go upside down, it will accommodate.
The downside, of course,e is that if you get into one right now, you'll be on th bleeding edge of the technology - they haven't even released all of the sub kits yet - so you'll have to put up with a few inevitable mis-steps and changes in the early production process.
If you think you're going to be a really fast builder, you could have a -9 flying before you have a -14 going. But if you are going to take a few years to build, you might end up at the end going "if I had waited a year to start, I could have had a -14...."
Just throwing those thoughts out there for you to add to your mix.
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Last edited by Ironflight : 10-29-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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10-29-2012, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mahomet, Illinois
Posts: 2,195
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I am fully impressed with every aspect of my 9A, but if I were starting a project today (truly starting, not planning), I would build a 14. It has many desirable improvements over the other side-by-side RVs, not the least of which is the added room.
__________________
Terry Ruprecht
RV-9A Tip-up; IO-320 D2A
S. James cowl/plenum
(Dues paid thru Nov '18)
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10-29-2012, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
I don't normally get into these "what model should I build" threads, because almost everyone tends to defend their own choices as "the right one"....but since the RV-14 is so new, and few have flown it, I'd have to say that your requirements very much match the mission for which it was designed. I flew both the -14 and the -9 back-to-back at the factory back in September, and the -14 is quite remarkable as a cruising machine - roomy, excellent visibility, plenty of baggage capacity. And yes, if you do decided that you want to go upside down, it will accommodate.
The downside, of course,e is that if you get into one right now, you'll be on th bleeding edge of the technology - they haven't even released all of the sub kits yet - so you'll have to put up with a few inevitable mis-steps and changes in the early production process.
If you think you're going to be a really fast builder, you could have a -9 flying before you have a -14 going. But if you are going to take a few years to build, you might end up at the end going "if I had waited a year to start, I could have had a -14...."
Just throwing those thoughts out there for you to add to your mix.
Paul
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Paul,
Thanks, that is pretty close to what my thought process has been. I got a chance to see a 10 yesterday for the first time, and talked with the owner quite a bit. I thought I had just about decided on the 9, but after speaking with him I'm thinking I need to consider the 14 more carefully. Of course the lack of details on it at this stage make that a bit tougher.
I'm a bit concerned about the additional cost of the engine for the 14 (both to run and in terms of fuel), but aside from that it looks like it would be a great plane.
Also, it looks like if I want to start anytime soon, I'll have to start with a slow build wing kit(?). I was planning on starting with the empanage. Any reason to be concerned about having to start with a wing kit?
Lots of questions I know, but there is a lot of data to try and digest.
Thanks,
-Dan
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10-29-2012, 10:02 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Another question.
Does anyone have a good idea/guess as to what fuel burn would be on a 14 at cruise speed, say 55% and/or 70% power?
I "think" a 9a with a 160hp CS Prop burns about 7.5 at 55% power? How much more could I expect a 14 to burn?
-Dan
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10-29-2012, 10:14 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
I'm 5' 10" 215, and my wife is 5' 3". I believe we would both have enough room to be comfortable on long trips in the 9, but should I consider the 14?
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I would consider the 14, you can never have too much room. Plus you never know when you will take a trip with that 6'4" buddy of yours.  I've not flown the 9, but I do get leg cramps if I fly a 7 for over an hour. I'm only 6'1".
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
We currently own a Cessna Cardinal, and I'm looking for something that will be faster, and cheaper to operate (less fuel consumption).
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You can have faster or cheaper, but it's hard to get both. I have a RV-10. If I want to enjoy the scenary and have an economical flight, just pull the throttle back. But if I do need there fast, I have that option too, but it will cost me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
I'll be looking to build the plane as a full IFR platform, and doing a lot of cross country flying.
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Either will be fine for IFR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
I'm a little concerned about the nose wheel issues on the 9, is that warranted, or is the problem overblown?
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Overblown in my opinion, unless you plan on flying out of a lot of not well maintained grass strips. The 14's nosewheel will be stronger, but I don't think that will matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
I keep hearing that the 14 will be an easier kit to build? How much should that play into my thinking?
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That really depends on your skill level. I built a 10 without previous experience. If history can be a determining factor, with every new model the plans have been getting better, clearer instructions, and easier construction. With all that is planned for the 14, it will be an easier kit to assemble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
I've never attempted anything of quite this scale before, so I am really trying to make sure I make a fully informed decision.
Thanks,
-Dan
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I also concur with Paul's statements.
This is just like anything else in life. If you worry about starting such a large and complex project, you'll never get started. Jump in head first and only worry about getting the tasks on page 1 down. When that's completed tackle page 2. Before you know it, you'll be completely through the project.
The wing was probably the simpliest part of my 10 build. It's a lot of repetition. Just practice riveting to ensure you don't get too many smileys. There are plenty of threads on VAF that provide riveting advice. I would also recommend assembling the practice kit and the tool box to get a taste of the tasks you'll be doing during the construction and assembly of which ever model you decide upon.
Neither is a bad choice. If it were me, I would go with the 14.
bob
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10-29-2012, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
Also, it looks like if I want to start anytime soon, I'll have to start with a slow build wing kit(?). I was planning on starting with the empanage. Any reason to be concerned about having to start with a wing kit?
Lots of questions I know, but there is a lot of data to try and digest.
Thanks,
-Dan
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If you go the 9 route, I strongly advise to start the kits in order. The plans are more verbose in the early chapters. By the time you get to the empennage, they quit explaining all the minute details that you were suppose to learn in earlier chapters. If this is your first build, this is important. If you built before, it doesn't really matter.
With the 14, I think they released the wings first because it was the easiest to bring to the market the quickest. Like I mentioned in my other post, the 10 wings were pretty simple. The 14's tanks are a different size, so I don't know how much of a difference that the construction process will be.
A lot of people fret and have anxiety about building their tanks. It's not that hard. Once you get them done, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
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10-29-2012, 10:27 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,158
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Do you need 4 seats?
Since you currently own a Cardinal do you need 4 seats?
Like others have said, I think the -14 will be a great cross country machine with tons of room and a more upright position. I think your wife will enjoy it more than the other 2 seat models.
But when it comes to the economics I bet the difference between the -14 and a -10 would be 1-2gph. Of course the building is more expensive.
I average around 10 - 10.5 gph in the -10 at 158 kts TAS. Of course you can go faster if you burn more fuel. Not sure what the IO-390 will run at LOP but it won't be too much less.
Just something to think about.
__________________
Scott Schmidt
Salt Lake City, UT
RV-10 N104XP (1280 Hours)
RV-12 N321UT (Sold)
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10-29-2012, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSchmidt
Since you currently own a Cardinal do you need 4 seats?
Like others have said, I think the -14 will be a great cross country machine with tons of room and a more upright position. I think your wife will enjoy it more than the other 2 seat models.
But when it comes to the economics I bet the difference between the -14 and a -10 would be 1-2gph. Of course the building is more expensive.
I average around 10 - 10.5 gph in the -10 at 158 kts TAS. Of course you can go faster if you burn more fuel. Not sure what the IO-390 will run at LOP but it won't be too much less.
Just something to think about.
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Thanks, that helps.
I currently need four seats, but if I figure a 4-5 year build, that has my daughter off at college, and the need for a four seat plane goes way down. Any, I might still keep the Cardinal after I get the RV built...
This is turning out to be a tougher decision than I thought. I'd really like to go with the 14, but I'm just not sure the extra cost is worth it to me.
-Dan
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