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  #1  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:05 AM
RV7Guy's Avatar
RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Default Building-Things I've learned

Good morning. We are in a cycle of lots of new builders on forum. I'd like to address a few things that I've learned building a couple of 7's and helping numerous other builders. I like to use the term, "Work smarter, not harder."

Keep in mind these following things are what I've learned and worked for me. They were learned from personal experience and builders before me. They may be different for others. I'm hoping others will chime in and give their tips for saving time and money.

A common theme for most is not having enough time to devote to the project. As a result, wise time management is crucial. Here we go

1) Attempt to do building research when away from the project. i.e., Research while on breaks at work. Do specific research to the component you are involved with at the time. This way your time use is focused when you are able to get back to the garage or hangar.

2) Although entertaining and fun to dream, forget all aspects of panel planning until you are about 6 months from buttoning things up. Having built one flying 7 and having another 3/4ths of the way, I learned that nothing is gained from doing this too early. About the only thing that really won't change is the auto pilot so decide on that and so the servos can get mounted. Things change so quickly it is a lost effort that will require redoing later.

It is quite entertaining to see someone post, "here's my panel idea, please comment." Then in the signature block. "Himey Kablutz, Grinderswitch, Wy. Tail kit in progress." Well unless you are a miracle worker, you are at least a year out from needing anything remotely close to a panel.

3) For some unknown reason there is trend for builders to accelerate, "getting it on the gear." This is truly the most artificial symbol of progress that will hinder your build progress. And, to get the engine mounted. As with the panel, this does nothing to help your build time. In fact, it will greatly hamper access to "inside the cabin," work.

I fully realize that doing this is motivator for some and if you really feel the need, do it. Just realize this will slow down the build. Maybe mount it, feel good and remove it so you can get real work done

I also understand that this may vary some from model to model but you get the concept.

I highly recommend getting everything possible done BEFORE even thinking about mounting the engine and getting it on the gear. I use low saw horses. This way you have easy access to getting all inside the cabin work done. Also, you can easily get the wings fitted and all systems completed and the wings removed and put way. The canopy is easy to work on when the fuselage is sitting low and easily accessible.

At this point is when you can start to finalize your panel. Once you do, mount everything possible while you have easy access.

On the first 7 I followed this advise and completed everything including the panel and canopy (tip up). The forward skin was fit but not riveted. The wings and all systems were completed. THEN, I mounted the engine mount and completed several thing on the firewall before putting it on the gear.

With it on the gear, but without the engine, I completed the wheel/tire and brake mounting. Much easier than whacking your head on the engine

Finally when everything possible was completed unrelated to the engine, the engine was mounted. This is really a non-event that only takes a short time.

4) Now with the engine mounted, complete everything that needs to be done, "where you have no choice or limited choice where it goes." This will prevent do-overs later. I have serious experience at do-overs on a couple of items.

In summary, these are few of my learning experiences gleaned from the wisdom of others and from my experience. Hopefully many others will contribute. I'd love to learn more from others to assist in saving time on the new 7.

Good luck!!!
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Last edited by RV7Guy : 10-17-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:28 AM
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mannanj mannanj is offline
 
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Default Build

Sounds like you've done this before.
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:29 AM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
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Default

All good suggestions.
What I found in my build is that when I made a mistake, I worried about it, stressed over it, and bogged myself down with bad thoughts. There was always a fix and it always took less time to fix than I took worrying about it.
Once you get over the worry of making a mistake, your build will go faster. You will no longer be paralyzed by the fear of making a mistake because you know you can fix it.
That does not mean you jump into things with haste or without proper thought, but over time, your confidence will grow.

Don't let mistakes paralyze you!
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2012, 10:38 AM
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Great advice! I'm just getting started with the firewall forward journey. Everything with the fuselage is completed. Everything that can be fitted has been fitted. Just finished the canopy. All of the wiring is in place, but the panel is still blank. Still need to decide on a couple of items. I've got time. Gear all prefitted and back off the fuselage, which sits on a low movable cradle. Very convenient to be able to lean over the side and reach into the depths of the fuselage.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2012, 12:15 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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I disagree a bit with #2. There are some things associated with the panel, like wiring runs, antennas, etc., where it is much easier to do at least prep work early on. E.g., either run lots of extra wires or conduit with pull strings, mount antenna doublers and nutplates, etc., in areas which will be hard to access later. But buy nothing, including autopilots, until the last 6 months. As you say, it will be obsolete by the time it's running.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2012, 12:32 PM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
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Definitely agree with much of the post.
Getting on the gear just makes the cabin harder to work in.

I did most of my wiring and panel with the fuselage upsidedown so it was a simple duck under to enter the cabin. Very convenient.

Doing all the firewall penetrations prior to hanging the engine (and riveting the recess) was a good thing. Vans dims for the M1B were spot on.

Mild disagreement with the panel but its really just a matter of degree. I can't build a panel in 6 Months so I need to start sooner
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2012, 01:47 PM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzbill View Post
Mild disagreement with the panel but its really just a matter of degree. I can't build a panel in 6 Months so I need to start sooner
I concur, but I would wait until the last year. If you are the type that wants the latest and greatest, you should stay tuned to ordering lead times. Also, if you are going to need assistance with the harness, from somebody like SteinAir or Aerotronics, then you need to add their leads times as well. I'm aware of a couple folks that have had some unpleasant surprizes because their EFIS was backordered and their reseller had a 90-120 day queue.

As far as the gear goes, Lowes has had a sale on these the last two black friday's for about $20. It greatly assists working on things once the gear is installed.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_146404-287-A...cetInfo=Werner
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2012, 02:02 PM
Erik.37m Erik.37m is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes,CA
Posts: 27
Default Advice taken

Thanks for the heads up. I plan on building a QB RV-14 and need to get my skill set up to speed so the empennage and the rest of the plane turns out good and in a productive manner. I can see how the second build could go much quicker. Time is an issue since I own my business. I could and should work 12 hour days making money but if I want to build my plane I going have to work smarter at both. I even thinking of buying a unwanted empennage here for an existing RV just to learn the mistakes on something that wouldn't matter. I just saw a FS RV-8 empennage here for $350.00 with plans. That's doable for me except I want one with minimal work done and that one was complete. I went to Aircraft Spruce outdoor sale a few weeks ago and Garmin and Dynon were there along with other vendors. I pick up alot of literature from those two but by the time I'm ready the next generation might come out.
Erik S.
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2012, 02:12 PM
Vmax Vmax is offline
 
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Location: Naples, FL
Posts: 25
Default First Flight

Now that the first three flights on my RV-7 have been accomplished, I would like to pass on some lessons learned to prospective builders that would have been helpful to me at the beginning of my project.

My RV-7 is a quick build wing and fuselage, Van supplied the IO-360M1B engine and constant speed prop. The panel was made by Aerotronics with a Dynon Skyview, Dynon D6 for a backup and a Garmin 530W. The completion time was 2300 hours in about 3 years 4 months. This was my first project and I have no previous building experience.

The first and one of the smartest things I did was attending the EAA/SportAir RV Empennage Workshop in Griffin, GA. It gave me a some solid basic skills plus it and allowed me to make a better selection of tools to purchase. I don?t think this course is offered anymore but similar ones are available.

The next smart thing I did was I started to ask a lot of questions about panel layout and wiring, my weakest skill. After talking to several shops, all were outstanding and the choice was difficult. Finnally I chose Aerotronics in Billings MT. They have been absolutely outstanding, everything they built on the panel that I installed actually works! Considering my skill level with electronics, this is a major accomplishment. They have tirelessly answered every dumb question I asked. A bonus is the panel is professionally wired and when, not if, I have radio problems, most any radio shop can do the repairs.

This web site has been a great source of information and everyone has been very helpful.

The quick build route worked great for me. After working with Proseal, it would not have been much fun sealing the fuel tanks.

Now for the things I would do differently. First, if you want the project to be completed in a reasonable time, keep everything as simple as you can. Every change and upgrade increases the complexity exponentially. As an example: I would not have added heated seats as requested by my wife. I would not have had as many stick grip functions, the push to talk switch would have been sufficient. I would probably have a fixed pitched prop and forego the strobe or nav lights. The prop governor installation was a bear to figure out how to mount. Simpler is better for a first time builder.

I would do a better job planning for the fuselage and wing wiring. It would have been much easier to run the wires when access was easy. Crawling around the tail is tough for a big, old guy. Too many wires and too little space.

The firewall forward was frustrating. The Van firewall forward kit was pretty generic had to be modified quite a bit. Many modifications had to be made to accommodate the engine even though it was a standard Van engine and prop. The air induction had to be completely reworked because it was too wide, Van said it is made for the angle valve engine and has to be adapted for the M1B. This added 3 weeks. The baffle kit also had to have a few modifications. The master solenoid had to be moved because it interfered with the fuel line. The heater muffler interfered with the cowl. I could not have been the first person to have these problems and it added a lot of time. You are basically on your own on the firewall forward, next time I?ll do more research before starting on this section.

The cowling and canopy fairing were the most challenging parts of the project for me, these took months. I would find a local fiberglass expert and get some direction. A retired auto body worker finally took pity on me and taught me some great skills.

The flap adjustment was another time vampire. It?s a dance between getting the flaps all the way up and making sure the motor ?de-clutches?. What would have solved this from the start is a momentary spring action switch that returns to ?OFF? instead of the ?UP? position that I had on the stick grip. Once again, keep it simple.

Overall it was a great experience and I would do it again.

Last edited by Vmax : 10-20-2012 at 02:14 PM. Reason: add picture
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:09 PM
RVguy RVguy is offline
 
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Location: Lewiston, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
I concur, but I would wait until the last year. If you are the type that wants the latest and greatest, you should stay tuned to ordering lead times. Also, if you are going to need assistance with the harness, from somebody like SteinAir or Aerotronics, then you need to add their leads times as well. I'm aware of a couple folks that have had some unpleasant surprizes because their EFIS was backordered and their reseller had a 90-120 day queue.

As far as the gear goes, Lowes has had a sale on these the last two black friday's for about $20. It greatly assists working on things once the gear is installed.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_146404-287-A...cetInfo=Werner


Bob, I just noticed Lowes has it for $17 till the 26th. Black Friday special!

http://www.lowes.com/

http://www.lowes.com/pd_146404-287-AP-20-MP6_4294858114%2B4294965411__?productId=1017889&Ns =p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FN s%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=Werne r
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Last edited by RVguy : 11-23-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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