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  #21  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:08 PM
localizer localizer is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 50
Default How to fix a smiley itself?

So far my "vast" experience is based on completion of a Toolbox training project and my thought is that a smiley is in the aluminum... It is a skewed rivet and a half-round impression on the sheet. Is this right?
If so, then how can the half-round impression be fixed? I see you guys say you fix this, but I think that fix is only applied to the bad rivet, which is drilled out and a new one is driven in. The smiley itself remains there. Is this all correct?
So can this be fixed?
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:02 PM
rapid_ascent rapid_ascent is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dublin, CA
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Talking

I must admit that I'm still working my way up the learning curve on the -4 rivets. They are more difficult to set than the -3 rivets. I have found a couple of things that are helpful. First I set the pressure around 45#. Second I find that a heavier bucking bar helps. I am a solo riveter so I find that if I dont keep pressure on the head of the rivet the set will move away from the head and you will get a smiley. If you are solo riveting you have to keep the right balance of pressure on the gun versus the bucking bar. So make sure you keep more pressure on the gun. If the bar was to move away from the shop head it probably won't cause a problem unless it slides off or is angled. If the set slides off the head you will need to drill it out and start over. I have drilled out many of these.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:09 PM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
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Location: Wichita, KS
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Default Snap Socs

21 replies and nobody has mentioned Snap Socs yet?

http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,5933.html

They do make you lazy though - I don't set a 1/8" rivet without them, and if I tried I'm sure it wouldn't turn out worth a darn. I seem to have little problem with each one lasting 40-50 rivets easily. Why are they so expensive? Because they're worth it!
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Last edited by krw5927 : 10-12-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:28 PM
johnny stick johnny stick is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Default see other post

See the other post... get divorced.
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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bird bird is offline
 
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Location: lake charles, La.
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Default

as others have mentioned please double check that you have the right rivet set. it should not overlap on the sides but be a little smaller than the rivet head leaving a visible edge of the rivet when placed on the head straight. The next size up looks like it fits but it kind of covers the edge of the rivet head, if you see this it is probably the wrong size. The smaller size is obviously too small and would leave a circle on the rivet head if shot.

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  #26  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:03 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
Default All Smiles, but no Smilies . . . .

OK, i have the Avery 3x gun (bought new) and did some experimenting today. Here are my conclusions (confirming recommendations from posters here) My smilies were not on the rivet head, but on the base material.

1. Pressure is very important, 50-65 psi is a good range for -4 rivets
2. heavier sets take more air pressure: it took 5 more psi for the long offset than the short straight set.
3. Heaver, stiffer structure takes more pressure, it took +5 psi (short set) to actually set the rivet.
4. Light weight bucking bar also requires higher pressure than a heavy one.
5. Tape, masking and duct tape both provide additional clearance and cushioning, also they protect the head and it looks nicer after setting.
6. i was always holding my gun with the heel in my palm, and it really helps keep direct line of action should something bounce, but it won't bounce with the proper pressure ( low). This is particularly helpful with a swivel set for flush when solo to keep the set from walking off.

I double checked the set and it is correct per Avery site, but I still have a nagging feeling that the dimensions of the set are very critical and will discuss this with Avery to get their opinion. It seems the depth, shape and clearance to the parent material are very important. The rivet is much more loose that in the squeezer -4 set. I will post if modifications to provide some additional relief works.

Oh - - yes the "snap-socs" , i will definitely be getting some of these things.

Thanks again for all the considerate posts.

Sorry for the delay, I accidentally posted this to a parallel thread, so i copied and reposted here
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  #27  
Old 10-14-2012, 04:39 AM
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Andrew M Andrew M is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Secluded Lake,Alaska (AK49)
Posts: 359
Default listen

If you gun is hitting twice, and the bar is making contact once, then its either mass or how firmly you are holding the bar. You should be able to hear this, and I believe it's the number one cause of smiles. The structure springs under the load because it was not transmitted through to the bar, and that drives the set off the rivet, the next blow, the bar is in contact but the set isn't square, resulting in a smile. Tape, and holding square treats symptoms. The bar mass, gun air pressure, and hand pressure on both tools needs to be matched. Ear muffs, not plugs, will help you hear this if you are listening for it.
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2012, 05:33 AM
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randyintejas randyintejas is offline
 
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Location: Tyler, Texas
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Default

Use Black Gorilla Tape (home depot) and lots of pressure on the gun and don’t put too much pressure on the bar. Make sure the part is VERY secure. You don’t need the socks just the tape. This fixed all my 470 problems.
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2012, 06:04 PM
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Andrew M Andrew M is offline
 
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Location: Secluded Lake,Alaska (AK49)
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Default Light trick

Place one lights 90 degrees to where your eyes are so it both throws a shadow of your rivet gun on the sheet. The shadow will tell you if you are holding the gun square to the work in the plane your eye is not.
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