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10-11-2012, 07:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dothan, Alabama
Posts: 1,487
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For my Avery 2X gun, I used 35# for 3-3 flush rivetes. I started at 45# for 4-4 universal rivets and would increase the airpressure as the length of the rivet went up. Unless I was using an offset, I never used more that 65#. The off-set needed a bit more, but not much.
When you can, Squeeze. When I first started, I thought it was pretty tough to squeeze a 4-4 universal. It gets easier.
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Alton DeWeese
N526RV RV7A Tip Up, IO360 180 W/Hartzel BA prop.
Flying ~950 hours since Aug 2010
N4IDH
Construction Log
?The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one.?
?Mark Twain
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10-11-2012, 08:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: West Fargo, ND
Posts: 1,073
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Trigger let off
It is my understanding that a smiley occurs when you pull away from the rivet before letting off the trigger. (Ever so slighty) Now, obviously you wouldn't intentionally do this; but for me I think it subconsciously occurred whenever I would get tired or complacent. I could always remedy the situation by "consciously" apply pressure - pull trigger - let off trigger - relieve pressure. Whilst keeping things perpendicular and so on, etc.
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Derek Hoeschen
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-9A #92103 - N803DK
G3X, Superior XO-320, Dual Pmags, Catto 3B
www.mykitlog.com/dbro172/
1974 Bellanca Super Viking - N16AW - Flying
RV-8 #83565 - N184DK - building
1968 Mooney M20C - N6801N - Sold
1956 C-182 - N744W - Sold
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10-12-2012, 04:50 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa , Canada
Posts: 224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionclaw
I had good luck putting 1 or 2 small squares of duct tape over the end of the rivet set to prevent smilies. You will have to replace it every 4-5 rivets, but there aren't too many an470 rivets that you cant squeeze anyway. With my 3x rivet gun and a tungsten bucking bar I can easily set -4 rivets at 40-45psi and -3 rivets at 30-35 psi, but YMMV with your equipment.
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I was shown a trick by fellow builders here in Ottawa to use a strip of Hockey Pad tape (clear stretchy plastic tape.. with little residue). Its an inch wide so you can place quite a few rivets, tape em, and set them (I use 50 PSI for 4s...30 to 35 for 3s)
You can see the heads, the thick tape both adds anti skid and reduces the shock. Its cheap. It works quite well. The only 'downside' is the tape does cut on the rivet head occasionally, so make sure you peel any leftover bits off of the head when you remove the strip.
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Chris Hepburn
Ottawa, ON
RV-8 C-GOGO FLYING
Renew 12/20
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10-12-2012, 07:08 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbro172
It is my understanding that a smiley occurs when you pull away from the rivet before letting off the trigger. (Ever so slighty) Now, obviously you wouldn't intentionally do this; but for me I think it subconsciously occurred whenever I would get tired or complacent. I could always remedy the situation by "consciously" apply pressure - pull trigger - let off trigger - relieve pressure. Whilst keeping things perpendicular and so on, etc.
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Sure, this can happen. Done it. Had to fix it. Many times it was a matter of the work moving away from the gun. Make sure it is held well. As with some other posts in this thread, I have experienced the situation where I could not prevent smiles no matter how hard I held the gun. It bounced. For me, it was an adjustment on pressure plus a flow restrictor that I have in the bottom of the gun. Adjusting them changed the hit plus the hit rate and eliminated the bounce and obviously the smiles.
My gun is a 3x and "well experienced". I did find that there was a fairly large range of pressure adjustment (like 35 to 70psi) going from AD3 skin rivets to the long AD4s that are used in the structure, especially if the set was long or offset. Maybe it is my gun. Since i'm done, its not an issue anymore 
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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.
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10-12-2012, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Adelaide South Australia, Australia
Posts: 193
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Avery have this rivet set.
I found myself having the same problem and a fellow builder here put me onto this rubber surrounded rivet set. It really does cut down on slippage and help you align the set head.
http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1047
Jim
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10-12-2012, 09:10 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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I had to drill out two -4 smilies this week while setting a number without them. What frustrates me is I don't have a handle on excatly why they occurred. It probably is a combination of letting up on a the set while still hammering away and/or not being on the rivet square. Being on the rivet square is a challenge when doing it solo holding the bar over an edge, sometime 24" away.
65 psi is what seems to work best for 4's, 35 for 3's. Also, the length of the rivet matters. The short 4-4 rivets set easy, the 4-9's don't seem to go as easy. Could be some of the energy is lost in the length of the rivet.
I always squeeze if possible. No smilies there. 
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10-12-2012, 09:25 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 176
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Tape
I use duct tape or masking tape over the rivet set. My horizontal stab is full of smileys. After I started using tape I stopped getting smileys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL
To this point i have managed to avoid using the rivet gun to set nearly any -4 rivets. Setting flush rivets is no problem, setting -3 universal head seems fine. I use the squeezer when possible. I just can not seem to consistently avoid a side strike with -4's. I have am using a straight set, and it seems a new rivet head slides around in the polished cup, then during the set the universal head seems to hit in the center and flatten, making it nearly impossible to avoid a side strike.
SOoooo . . . is me ?
Is it pressure? i am at 80 psi and use a short burst of about 3 strikes per pulse.
Should the set fit the head of the rivet closer? - - -it seems to slide around some? Do i have a defective set?
It is essential that i learn to do this very consistently. Hammer me . . .
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David Taylor
RV-7 N207DT
Wings
Warner Robins, GA
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one. "
Elbert Hubbard
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10-12-2012, 09:56 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ramona, CA
Posts: 2,370
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This guide has worked great for setting the right pressures on various sized rivets. If you use a longer rivet set, you will need to bump up the pressure.
Every time I have had issues with riveting it has come down to air pressure settings either too high or too low.
I also found that the plastic covers that Avery sell work great, but they don't last very long. Buy several packages.
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10-12-2012, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Those pressures appear to be for a 2X gun. If you're using a 3X gun you'll want to reduce them significantly.
Please bear in mind, that when people talk about pressures, they're referencing a particular size rivet gun and the pressures need to change as the gun size changes. Different brands of the same size gun will have different characteristics, too.
Dave
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10-12-2012, 11:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Newton's Cradle
One thing to keep in mind is that the rivet set should not bang against the rivet. You want to maintain a solid connection. The energy will transfer well. It's akin to this:
Dave
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