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10-11-2012, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wera710
When I painted my own RV in the colors of the 357th FG I did it SPECIFICALLY to honor the 90 plus men who died flying under those colors and because when I fly to any airport, people will ask what it means, this paint? Therefore giving me a chance to highlight and explain the sacrifices made by not only those men, but all those who fought for this nation. I will never make apologies for this nor give a second thought to anyone who has a problem with it. Either do it, or do not do it; Choice. It?s what makes us a free people. Those of us lucky enough to have known WWII vets, and especially pilots, have a perspective slowing dying away in the modern world. Many of those men never told their families of their trials. They did however, occasionally, tell friends, younger guys at the local airports. In moments of reflection as if they wanted to get something off their chests before they passed away. Those lucky few, we not only will remember those tales, but we want to pass them on so they will at least, on a small scale, not be forgotten.
So as far as painted a non-warbird like a fighter?wouldn?t I give a rat?s patootie if someone finds it offensive. Too bad for them. Get a life and change the channel as it were. I?ve known too many vets whose stories have gone untold to care that someone might misunderstand. This even goes for the ?bad guys? who fought for their own nations. Pilots, the world over, fought hard, died hard, and most were forgotten. Other than the few really famous ones, most of their names were totally forgotten, days, if not weeks after their death. They are not even a foot note in the history they died to create. We all know the Chuck Yeager?s and the Bud Anderson?s. But few of us know the names of 1000s of men who flew once, maybe twice, and never came home. They are lost to history.
Too many people tie all this stuff up in the politics behind it. Then men in the field, they were not fighting for Roosevelt or Hitler or Eisenhower. They were fighting for their buddy in the bunk next store, their friends, their families and their homes. And their sacrifices should be views in that light.
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Wow, very well said!
-Dan
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10-11-2012, 03:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pottstown PA
Posts: 209
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As I am sure this second post will be deleted, I'll add this seperately. HA! Seems to me that certain forces have nearly won the battle if we are having these kinds of conversations over political correctness or appropriateness of paint schemes, and that is all this seems to be; a case of PC worry. I personally do not care WHO I offend, particularly if they take offense when NONE was given -- Which seems to be a malaise in todays world. But I respect anyone painting an aircraft to honor those who have fought and died for this nation. I even feel this way about those painting their aircraft to honor the men defending their homes from us. The guy shooting down B-17s was just as much a VICTIM of the EVIL that took over his nation as was the men dropping the bombs from our bombers on his cities. And his efforts to save his cities and families, when looked it in that perspective, can be honored as well, particularly when you consider his odds for survival. It took a certainl level of testicular fortitude to climb into an aircraft, knowing that your chance of survival was slim at best. As a US citizen, I would have worked hard to shoot his krout backside down, and I might have punched him in the nose had I met him a year after the war...But having met some of those guys before they passed away, and getting some perspective on their situation, well, there were brave men on both sides.
So I do not worry about the opinion of others. I worry about the loss of history and the rewriting of history to fit various political views. Part of being a rugged individualist and an American is keeping your own counsel and realizing that too many worry about what others think and act accordingly. My post will probably get yanked here, as it has in the past, because too many worry about how others perceive things. Still, since this post also applies to my own aircraft, I am trying to enlighten the original poster as to the WHY behind my own choice, and possibly the choices of many others who have done the same. Millions of faceless people died as the result of evil. Out of that experience, men were tried and tested in ways we cannot imagine. Anything that keeps the memory alive, even the painful memories, is good. We may never see another Hitler in this world, but we might...and I'd like to know people can instantly recognize him when they see him, and stop him.
Disrespecting vets? You've got to be kidding me. Anything that tells their story and helps others understand what they endured can only be good.
__________________
Scott "Lawbreaker" (yeah, its a fair cop!)
RV-8 N710PX "Bad Attitude!"
Last edited by wera710 : 10-11-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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10-11-2012, 03:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,186
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When I had Smokey painted in VF-84 livery, I gave a nod to the original "Jolly Rogers" of WWII by putting the names of the squadron's CO and XO on the canopy skirt. Just my way of blending the squadron's history from the Corsairs of WWII and the F-14s of later years.
Last year at Oshkosh, a fellow came up and handed me his business card. All he said was, "Does the name ring a bell?"
"No," I replied, seeing that the first name on his card was David, "but replacing 'David' with 'Jack' it does. He was a VF-17 pilot."
He smiled and said, "Yeah, he was my uncle!" David went on to share with me how he used to sit and listen to his uncle tell stories about flying Corsairs in the Pacific in WWII. It was rewarding for me to know that my little tribute effort was appreciated by a family member of an original Jolly Roger.
Other than that, I just like the paint scheme. If I were bound by some arbitrary rule that said that I needed the permission of someone in order to paint my plane a certain way ... well ... 
__________________
Don McNamara
Peoria, AZ
Builder: RV-8 "Smokey"
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10-11-2012, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 102
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I have decided in the last year or so to paint my RV-7 in Marine VMA-AW-242 colors from the time period of January 1969 when they flew A-6A's. The Intruder isn't the prettiest aircraft, but when touring the USS Midway in San Diego a couple years ago and looking at the A-6 on its deck, I thought the side by side seating and other aspects were similar to a -7. If you squint a little bit and use your imagination you can see a resemblance. Not like a P-51 and an RV-8, but close enough.
Having grown up in Wisconsin and being born in 68' I thought it would make it more personal if I could honor someone from my home state that was lost around the time I was born. I haven't seen an RV painted in the Vietnam era schemes and the thought of honoring the guys from that period seemed like the right thing to do. They didn't get the same treatment as the veterans of previous wars as we all know. I didn't have to look for long on the internet when I found the story of Capt Edwin James "Jimmy" Fickler. He went missing during a night mission on 1/17/69 and was never found or heard from again along with his B/N Richard Kuhlman. He grew up in Kewaskum, WI which is not too far south of Oshkosh. If the Notam allows, I plan to fly over his home town on my way to Oshkosh for the first time, which hopefully isn't too many years from now.
I was very concerned with doing something so personal as painting my airplane in this way and was lucky enough to have been able to track down his sister. She liked the idea of honoring her brother and told me several stories about his childhood and how he loved to fly for the Marines. I have also talked with another close friend of his that was in flight school with him in Pensacola. Another contact I made was with Tom Idema who was a B/N in the 242 and lived in the same hooch as Capt Fickler for a period of time in Da Nang. Mr Idema wrote a book entitled "The View From Here" which detailed his experience flying in Vietnam.
Both of these military friends of his thought my way of honoring their friend and all the others really, was a great idea. These personal connections have convinced me that painting my RV-7 in their honor is not only acceptable, but something I now need to do. Some may think I'm a poser or wannabe, but I know the real reason and that is good enough for me. I look forward to telling this story over and over so that the current and future generations don't forget their sacrifice. One last thing, it will look really cool too!
__________________
Gary Moore
Northwest Arkansas
Working on the firewall forward....
RV-7, N742GM (Reserved)
http://mykitlog.com/mhead
Donated 9/9/19
Last edited by Mhead : 10-11-2012 at 05:02 PM.
Reason: corrected year to 1969
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10-11-2012, 06:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mtns of N.E. Georgia
Posts: 1,322
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Respect
While I understand and respect the feelings of others, I choose to be totally NOT politically correct. Others have expressed their thoughts much more elequently than I could.
I am retired from the United States Air Force. I was cannon fodder for 20+years and am as patriotic as they come.
I had my plane in P-51 livery for six years but when I moved it to Florida, I had to paint it as the corrosion was gaining on me. I'm getting too old and too lazy to keep it polished.
This is what I ended up with. I make no apologies and have no regrets. As most of you know, it is Winter Camo as painted on MIG-3s near Moscow in 1942. At that time the Axis forces were near Moscow and the Russian People were fighting for their very existance. The scheme is to honor those people at that time. I DO NOT condone anything Stalin did before during or after the War; nor the regime since.
A poster on another thread was wondering about selling prices with such paint schemes. I didn't even give any thought to that. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me one way or another. I didn't build it to sell and I'm not in the trading business. I built it for me
[IMG]
IMG_0099 by mannanj, on Flickr[/IMG]
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LAUS DEO
Mannan J.Thomason, MSGT. USAF (RET)
VAF788
"Bucket List" checkoff in progress!
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10-11-2012, 06:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 120
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I'm very UN-PC
I agree whole-heartedly with Wera710.
Well said sir! Beat me to it. Not that I would have said it so well.
History must be remembered so the mistakes aren't repeated.
My Grandad was WW1 western front and Dardanelles. My dad nearly got into Korea, but before his battalion was sent over it all finished.
When I finish my 8, I plan to modify the front windscreen to be more like a P-51, and being a brit, I'll paint it with a scheme used by the RAF.
Re nose art in WW2, a lot of the 8th AAF B-17's and 24's had to tone down their nose art because it was thought it would offend the 'locals'.
The swastika and anything that could be linked to Nazism is illegal in Germany.
I believe there are several restored WW2 fighters and replicas in Germany but none have the swastika.
__________________
Roger
A Brit in Texas
RV8 N886LH (Reserved) BuNo 83320
Collecting books/info/tools.
Tail kit arrived! 9/30/2012
Construction started
"The engine's overheating, and so am I! Either we stand down, or blow up! Now which do you want?" Sqn Ldr Canfield.
Last edited by 2bolts : 10-11-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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10-11-2012, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mountain Southwest
Posts: 168
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This is a great thread - any that remembers our service men and women is a great thread.
I am in New Mexico and see the swastika pretty regularly. Many folks see it and think Nazi - there is far more too it than that. This site may be worth a read: http://reclaimtheswastika.com/history/
__________________
JD
RV-4 - 160HP O-320 - Sensenich GA
RV-3B - O-320 - "Daisy" (sold)
http://jdfinley.com
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10-11-2012, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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As one who was born shortly after WWII, and the fact that my father purchased a used WWII airplane after the war..........which took us to the airport often....
Yes, I like invasion stripes. I also prefer the stripes over curvy paint squiggles that I see on so many RV's. PC correct..............bla
L.Adamson
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10-11-2012, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
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I recently bought a Thorp T-18 from a 93 yr old German American. His uncle was a genuine German WWII pilot, who was also involved in the T-18.
It had a few subtle paint touches of WWI.
Ron Wanttaja, the aviation writer was a partner with Ed on the old Story Special (the flybaby was designed off the Story) Ron recounted a log entry in the Story club..."Flamed a SPAD over the Rhine!"
We have our inner Walter Mitty, I let it go at that.
__________________
Scott Emery
http://gallery.eaa326.org/v/members/semery/
EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
There is nothing-absolute nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing around with Aeroplanes
(with apologies to Ratty)
2019
Last edited by SHIPCHIEF : 10-11-2012 at 10:53 PM.
Reason: sp
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