Are you really getting Non Alcohol at Pump?

billpilot1 · #1 09-30-2012, 07:54 PM

I recently was talking to someone that was explaining that when you go to a gas station, and you select a grade (like Premium with NO Alcohol) that it comes through the same pump that pumped the Regular with Alcohol, and it could take up to 7 gals. to flush the hose and pipping from the tanks! With the price rising at the pump, and the ability to burn MO gas without Alcohol, I'm wondering how true this it. If the car that just pulled out bought the High Test, maybe you would be alright! Can any one either support or refute this information?
Thanks
Bill

bhester · #2 09-30-2012, 08:13 PM

I had my high octane auto fuel tested at a lab and no alcohol was detected.
The place that I get no fuel from does not have alcohol in any of the three grades.

There was a disscusion about the amont of fuel you get that is left in the system in another thread not long ago and it was very little.

humptybump · #3 10-01-2012, 04:14 AM

Its interesting that all of our local stations that carry zero-ethanol fuel have given it its own pump - away from the traditional fuel islands.

sailvi767 · #4 10-01-2012, 05:42 AM

The biggest problem with pump gas is that what you get today may not be what you get next week from the same gas station. There are huge variations in auto fuel both in formulation and quality. You never know where they purchased their last load of fuel. They also don't have the checks and balances you get with avgas especially when it comes to contamination with water or other substances.

George

humptybump · #5 10-01-2012, 06:50 AM

George, interesting data point. I thought most stations contract with a particular supplier. As for contamination - it can happen to anyone. Over the past year, I've had zero water or other contaminants with the zero-ethanol while we had a big mess at the local airport when they had water in the 100LL that affected numerous airplanes.

Greg Arehart · #6 10-01-2012, 08:03 AM

Bill,

If you're concerned, just test the fuel each time. Whenever I get a batch of autogas, I always test the first stuff out of the hose. If it's clean (always has been), then I am good to go. Easy test is take a plastic bottle, put a bit of water in the bottom and mark the water level (maybe a half-inch or so). Fill 2/3 up with fuel, cap, and shake. Let the water settle out (1-2 minutes is all it takes) and if there's "more" water than what you started with, you have ethanol in the fuel. Ethanol will migrate out of the fuel into the water when you shake the mixture, and then the water/ethanol mixture will separate from the gasoline.

Greg

Lemmingman · #7 10-01-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Arehart

Bill,

If you're concerned, just test the fuel each time. Whenever I get a batch of autogas, I always test the first stuff out of the hose. If it's clean (always has been), then I am good to go. Easy test is take a plastic bottle, put a bit of water in the bottom and mark the water level (maybe a half-inch or so). Fill 2/3 up with fuel, cap, and shake. Let the water settle out (1-2 minutes is all it takes) and if there's "more" water than what you started with, you have ethanol in the fuel. Ethanol will migrate out of the fuel into the water when you shake the mixture, and then the water/ethanol mixture will separate from the gasoline.

Greg

In support of Greg's post, here is a nice video from the EAA on the same process.
http://eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=82010108001

curtis · #8 10-01-2012, 10:51 AM

I check for alcohol every time I get gas and I only let approx 1 gal flow thru the hose before I check. If there is any alcohol in the initial gallon it is diluted down by the time I get 15 plus gallons.

billpilot1 · #9 10-05-2012, 08:16 PM

Thanks for the feed back to all. I brought the topic up at our last EAA chapter meeting. One guy says, because he burns the premium, he puts the first 3 or 4 gal in the tank of his car, then he fills the jugs and has never had any problem that way. Simple I guess. I would still test it, but at least the stuff from the guy ahead of you should be clear of the hoses!

ColoRv · #10 10-05-2012, 10:48 PM

Ah memories. Back in college I taught skydiving to make a few bucks and cover my jump habit. I was also a pilot back then. Anyway, we were asked to come jump out of a drop zone with a grass strip called Birdland in the middle of nowhere Florida. The plane owner filled up with 5 gallon cans at lunch and I remember wondering where he got that fuel. Following lunch I put my two students in, strapped them down and off we went. He taxied to the end, spun it around and gunned it. I gave him a look with my eyebrows raised and said "runup?" and he just smiled. I was low time, he looked like he had been flying since before I was born....so I smiled at my students and told some silly joke to relax them.

Now, as the jump master in this little tail dragger Cessna, I sat on the floor beside the pilot, back to the panel and my left leg braced up against the door frame (door removed), the 'seatbelt' over my waist. The students, two teenage girls from my college skydiving club, sat in the rear seat strapped in. When the engine sputtered at 50 feet or so, I could only think of the very tall trees not far past the end of the runway. When he chopped the throttle and nosed over, I knew we were not going to enjoy the landing. He was diving for the last bit of land prior to the pines...

The right side gear snapped off on the first bounce. I remember what the ground looked like skimming by as I hung half out of the door, clinging to his seat belt with my right hand. The wing was in the dirt, and I'll never forget the sound of aluminum tearing through the field. We spun our way to a stop, exhaust smoke and leaking fuel smell all around us. The pilot was beat up, bleeding badly from his mouth, unable to talk very well. The girls...handled it like champs...after one of them kicked me backwards out of the door and I told them to "calm down". The exhaust and fuel smell concerned me so I opted to remove the pilot. He could not walk well so I was helping him away from the plane when the girls started screaming. As it turned out, the little field we crashed in was home to a stud bull and he was pretty pissed that I seemed to have all the females.

I put a girl under each arm of the pilot and told them not to stop no matter what until they got to the fence. My intent was to distract the bull if any of his fake charges turned real. He let us leave with our lives....but gave the FAA guys fits from what I heard.

Bad Mogas was what I was told later. Be careful out there guys...one day of not paying attention and a bit of poor fuel....and things can go pretty wrong. The three souls for whom I was responsible were all strapped in as well as that plane would allow and ended up unscathed. The pilot, lost most of his teeth on the yoke, had back issues, lost his plane, took some FAA grief, shutdown that poorly thought out drop zone and taught me a lesson that I should have thrown a fit when an unknown to me pilot acted unsafely. Since then, I've been pretty anal about fuel.

Sorry for rambling....it's the scotch, makes me chatty.