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09-26-2012, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCHunt
In New Zealand and Australia, and probably other countries, the title is Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer. The short title is "Engineer". Unfortunately, the abbreviation is L.A.M.E.
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L.A.M.E. Now that was funny!
So what exactly would you call an engineer? (That's rhetorical)
__________________
Regards,
Nathan Harwood
RV-14 Wing Kit Ordered!
#140081
2012/2013 dues paid
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09-26-2012, 09:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Paso Robles, CA
Posts: 1,177
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Old Timers
My Grandfather, Art Brink was an A & E
He was also a pilot and his licence was signed by one of the Wright brothers!
Whatever proficiency you have, be proud, you had to earn it. 
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09-26-2012, 09:39 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 617
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Get back to the message...
I guess I believe folks use the term A&P deliberately, meaning:
1. "My Pilot buddy said I should use that in the fuel system."
2. "My Mechanic says it is OK to use that in a fuel system."
3. "My A&P said never use that in a fuel system."
So, do you use it or not?
Dkb
__________________
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David Boeshaar
RV-9A - N18TD (reserved) - Fuselage.
"My greatest fear: What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about?"
TDAircraft.com
-July-
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09-27-2012, 07:30 AM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortcat
I guess I believe folks use the term A&P deliberately, meaning:
1. "My Pilot buddy said I should use that in the fuel system."
2. "My Mechanic says it is OK to use that in a fuel system."
3. "My A&P said never use that in a fuel system."
So, do you use it or not?
Dkb
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Case closed. 
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09-27-2012, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Destin
Posts: 1,543
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okay, maybe i'm missing something, do people use mechanics that aren't a&p rated?
that's a foreign concept to me
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09-27-2012, 07:47 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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You'd probably be surprised how many aircraft (small GA) are "owner" maintained by non-mechanics and "friends".
"Owner assisted" annuals are pretty common for these "tinkerers", and the reason I won't do them is that they never document what they do.
If something happens the last guy that worked on it (the guy whose name is in the log) will be left holding the bag during the investigation.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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09-27-2012, 07:55 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkthomps
okay, maybe i'm missing something, do people use mechanics that aren't a&p rated?
that's a foreign concept to me
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Well, if you are referring to experimental aircraft the answer can be yes. It is not a requirement that one have an A&P certificate to be able to legally work on an experimental. Anyone can do so. On the other hand, getting an airworthiness sign off in the logbook after the work is completed requires either a signature from an A&P or an owner/builder who holds a repairman certificate for that aircraft.
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09-27-2012, 08:06 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkthomps
okay, maybe i'm missing something, do people use mechanics that aren't a&p rated?
that's a foreign concept to me
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Sure, why not? Here's a good advertisement for one:
http://www.comanchegear.com/cheap%20annual.jpg
__________________
Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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09-27-2012, 08:12 AM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI
On the other hand, getting an airworthiness sign off in the logbook after the work is completed requires either a signature from an A&P or an owner/builder who holds a repairman certificate for that aircraft.
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Oh dear....once again, we have a misconception. There is only one thing that is required to be in an Experimental Aircraft's maintenance records (it doesn't need to be a logbook) - that is the annual "I Certify that this aircraft has been inspected......and is found to be in a condition for safe operation" sign-off - and that must be by the person holding the Repairman's Certificate for that airplane, or a licensed A&P. No other records are required (although as an engineer, I certainly do much more), and no "sign-offs" are required by anyone. If you DO keep detailed records along the way, of things that you do (good for you!), anyone can sign them off, since the signature dosen't really mean anything.
This stuff drives A&P's nuts BTW (and rightfully so) - the rules for Experimentals are totally different than the certified birds that they have been tried to maintain "by the book".
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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09-27-2012, 08:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
Oh dear....once again, we have a misconception. There is only one thing that is required to be in an Experimental Aircraft's maintenance records (it doesn't need to be a logbook) - that is the annual "I Certify that this aircraft has been inspected......and is found to be in a condition for safe operation" sign-off - and that must be by the person holding the Repairman's Certificate for that airplane, or a licensed A&P. No other records are required (although as an engineer, I certainly do much more), and no "sign-offs" are required by anyone. If you DO keep detailed records along the way, of things that you do (good for you!), anyone can sign them off, since the signature dosen't really mean anything.
This stuff drives A&P's nuts BTW (and rightfully so) - the rules for Experimentals are totally different than the certified birds that they have been tried to maintain "by the book".
Paul
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Ok, Paul, I stand corrected. Airworthiness is only signed off during the Conditional Inspection. Although, having the repairman certificate, I do sign the "maintenance records" in a logbook after any maintenance work I perform. As Walt eluded to, I feel it important that the record be preserved for future reference if needed. A prime example is the recent directive from Vans that we check for missing spar bolts at the wing attachment. I have made an entry in the records to reflect that the plane has been inspected and the bolts were installed. Signed and dated with my repairman certificate information in the record. That way if Walt, or anyone else, has to deal with the airplane he can see the history. Now whether Walt would want to trust the information is surely his call to make. But it is there none the less.
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