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  #1  
Old 09-14-2012, 07:58 PM
NavyIBNFE's Avatar
NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
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Default Purchasing RV "Project"

Good Afternoon RVers,

I would like to ask some more opinions and gain some good advice from builders.

I have wanted an RV for years- I am still young(er) and Active Navy, single, no kids, lots of free time. (i.e. lots of time to get in trouble...)
I have recently considered NOT buying that old 172 to beat the cost of pricy rentals, or sluggish and tired Navy Flying Club birds. I thought of buying an older completed RV. -4, -6, or something around $50k.
Honestly, Ive felt slightly guilty because I knew my desire was to build MY airplane and feel that accomplishment. Alas, a new idea has come about.
Searching the ads online and talking with some GA gurus back home, I have discovered a rising amount of RV kits in various stages of completion. Many, near or past the "weight on wheels" stage. Some, very fairly priced kits, are still past the QB stage, or may even be QB kits with about 300 hrs added then the owner has to sell, for whatever reason. These kits seem to be all over the states and Canada- most for a good 15-30% cheaper than a new QB.
I have read Vans' article about buying a used RV or a second hand Kit, I would still have a builder go and check out the "progress" and give me an honest opinion on the quality and value compared to buying new.
Heres my biggest pro to buying a 2nd hand kit, I would like to fly soon (1.5-2.5 years) and I deploy with the Navy on all sorts of surges and deployments- some 2 months, some 8. I would like the idea of getting a kit that is basically ready for some last minute close ups and only requiring final assembly, fiberglass work, interior, engine, avionics, and paint. This would be ideal- but there are still some out there that are sitting just before the assembly stage, like another 80hrs then its off to the hangar.
What are some opinions here? I am not made of money, and I would really like to idea of building and putting all my budgeted flying money into savings to pay for an engine. Also, this would give me a fair bit of time to fly every other month or so with some RVers and get a little more Dual time before strapping into my own RV.
This would be a huge accomplishement in my life and I would be able to take advantage of these last few years before I end up with a wife and kids!
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14

Last edited by NavyIBNFE : 09-14-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2012, 08:35 PM
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Jerry Cochran Jerry Cochran is offline
 
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Location: Sherwood, Oregon
Posts: 981
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Jacob,

If i were in your place, I'd buy a flying RV-4, 6/6A, a few good examples of each are around. Then if you want, order a kit or find one in progress. That's having your cake and eating it too... Money a problem? Then take your pick.

.
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Jerry Cochran
Sherwood, Oregon

RV-7a 707DD Bot from David Domeier 12/01/11
Lycoming IO-360 Catto 3 blade Panel upgrade in progress

RV6a 18XP 1st flite 03/21/07 sold to Dale Walter 10/22/2011
Superior IO-360, Hartzell Blended, GRT/Dynon

Happily "autopaying" DR

"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself."

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  #3  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:00 PM
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UnPossible UnPossible is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyIBNFE View Post
I would like the idea of getting a kit that is basically ready for some last minute close ups and only requiring final assembly, fiberglass work, interior, engine, avionics, and paint
Not to be a wet blanket, but I just finished up my RV-7A QB project after 4 years of work.... there is a tremdious % of the overall project hours still left once the basic airframe is complete. If I had to guess, 50% of my total time in the project was spent after the basic airframe (tail, wings, fuselage) were pretty much fully put together.

Fitting the cowling, canopy, FWF and wiring/avionics are all major portions of the build.

Hope this is helpful,
Jason
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Jason Tremble
RV-7A (Flying and Sold)
RV-10 in process (@#$$%# Cabin Top & Doors)
Paid for 2020
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  #4  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:02 PM
petervs petervs is offline
 
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Location: Battle Ground,WA
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I agree, buy a flying airplane. modify it to your taste if you really want to do some "work".

If you like working on it, then buy a tail kit, do that work, then buy each kit as you gain cash. Eventually sell the airplane you bought flying and finish your own. Don't pass up the flying fun now.
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  #5  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:06 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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I would like the idea of getting a kit that is basically ready for some last minute close ups and only requiring final assembly, fiberglass work, interior, engine, avionics, and paint.

Not to knock all the wind out of your sails, but the above listed work works out to be about 1/3 of the total build time for most first time builders


Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyIBNFE View Post
This would be ideal- but there are still some out there that are sitting just before the assembly stage, like another 80hrs then its off to the hangar.
I watch the market and I see very few RV's offered for sale that would truly fit this category. In all honesty any project that is not already at the airport (because there is no other work left to do unless it is) probably has more on the order of 250 hrs of work left before it flys. Still much less than starting from scratch I admit, just don't be fooled... most projects still have a lot more work left to do than is at first apparent.
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  #6  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:17 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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Jacob, you being new here, may not know who rvbuilder2002 is-----believe me, you can trust him when he tells you something, he is one of our "moles"

I started with a project that was on its wheels, and I spent a lot of time just getting in tune with what had already been done-----and then I spent a lot of time re-doing stuff to make it the way I wanted it. Re-doing something always takes a lot more time.

Good luck in whichever way you go, it is worth it!!
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #7  
Old 09-14-2012, 10:08 PM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
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Default Good plan

First, thank you for your service to our great country.

I have a 7 flying that was purchased as a project in progress. The wings were past QB stage and the fuselage was under QB stage. I was able to do what I needed to make it "my way."

I later bought another 7 project in progress. This one was under QB stage for both wings and fuselage. I am making this EXACTLY the way I want it because I'm not building again!!! Lots of extras and extreme attention to details. So, it is taking longer.

Here are the important things to consider:

1) Make sure you have a thorough Pre-Buy inspection done. There are plenty of people on this forum that will do it for you, most likely for nothing. Agree to a small refundable deposit to hold the kit while you arrange for a pre-buy. Most RVer's are pretty good people but find your own person to do a pre-buy.

2) Inquire as to exactly is included, i.e. what has the builder purchased as "extras." Could be trim servos, pitot tube, static system etc.... Get a list. On that note, try to get the tools too!!!

3) Very important!!! Inquire if there have been any modifications during the build. As an example, maybe the builder was setting it up for an Alternative engine. In most cases the fuel system might have been modified. You don't want to spend time redoing work. Make sure it fits your plans.

4) Confirm with Van's that the seller is the current builder of record. If not, the paper chase could be a PITA.

5) Get a shipping quote from Partain if the distance is great enough that you won't pick it up yourself. This could be a consideration if a couple of projects are being looked at and one is closer.

The advantages to going this route are many. 1) you'll avoid sales tax in most cases. 2) you'll have a major head start by hundreds of hours 3) Easier to come up with enough money to buy a project as opposed to a flying RV. 4) With your time available you'll be flying quick if you have the funds to buy the engine and avionics.

The only real down sides can be missing out on the some of the learning curve building the tail group, the most difficult part of the build And, if you have to "undo" some of the build to meet your needs.

Good luck. Keep us posted. Don't hesitate to ask questions. This is a great group. Someone has already stepped on land mines on the path you are considering!!!!
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Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
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Last edited by RV7Guy : 09-14-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-14-2012, 10:17 PM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
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Location: Corpus Christi, TX
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Thanks guys for your experienced advice. I literally posted this idea within 12 hours of conjuring up the idea of taking over a project. I was in the mindset that I could be up and flying relatively soon after seeing some builders' web pages showing their progress thru the stages.
Perhaps buying a -4 or -6 (if I find one in my $$$ range) WOULD in fact be best, I hate to miss out on flying for a few years- I discovered a builder center near my new home base in NW Washington called "Axsys Air". If I buy a flying RV it wouldnt need much airframe work or modifications most likely, chances are it wouldnt need much. Besides maybe a panel upgrade or paint. I would like to get to know some builders at this assistance center and maybe work with some owners on their projects so learn the technique, then as I save up, I could start an EMP kit on the RV of my choice.
I would ultimately like a -7 slider, but the ones I see for sale now, the -4 is about the only one in my price range.
Thanks again for your expert advice- I will take this all into consideration.
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2012, 10:30 PM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
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Location: Corpus Christi, TX
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@ RV-7Guy-

I do like the idea of being able to almost outright buy a project kit, what little I would finance as a personal loan would be paid by the time I need an engine- and the money I save along the way would pay for a good mid time IO.
I really do like the idea of building my own plane, and getting one around QB stage should be a fair enough task to take on. I assume near 1000-1200 hours depending, at least thats what VansAircraft says. I am familiar with the working of airplane components and am almost an A&P myself- so there shouldnt be too much I dont have a grasp on at least.
Wiring and doing the FWF would be the biggest stride I believe, I could get help if needed.
I think this is the best cost effective route to take, I am ok flying the old club 152 for another couple years
I theoretically "could" afford an RV-4 right now, but insurance would be high due to low TW and RV time, I hate sales tax, and so on... Spreading the cost out over a few years and using my deployment money (always good) on avionics and paint would be easy.
I have looked at Dynons website and it seem I could get a nice 7" display with engine monitoring and a few other gizmos for less than $6k. NOT a bad deal. Unfortunately, the few RV-4s in my price range are high time or slightly outdated.
I like the 7's side by side seating, and I see many for sale way out of my rice range- I am a little curious if it would turn out to be more expensive building?
I have considered around $18-20k for a kit/project (Barnstormers etc..) and around $12k for a mid time IO320 and a few thousand for a nice F/P prop... later I could switch to C/S.
It seems like either way could prove to be great, or very expensive... Ill keep in touch- Ill try to add a few URLs to projects as I see them for sale.
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2012, 10:33 PM
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NavyIBNFE NavyIBNFE is offline
 
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Location: Corpus Christi, TX
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Here is a current listing on Barnstormers- its on Pg. 4 of Vans RVs - I couldnt add pics...


RV7-A OR RV7...SAVE $$$ • $18,995 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR TRADE • SAVE THOUSANDS $$$ Unfortunately my project has to go, RV7 or RV7A Excellent craftsmanship by A&P- just past quick build stage, wings and tanks done & pressure checked, completed emp vert and horizontal, winglets ailerons all finished up to glass work. Fuse halves done up to firewall, I believe it can still have tail wheel installed, ready for primer. Project comes with complete set of tools, gear legs and many many extra parts/pieces steps, elec trim, plans, too much to list...show me what you have to trade or cash, thanks for looking...email for complete pics or call *831.239.9009* • Contact Bill Gavlick, Owner - located San Juan Bautista, CA USA • Telephone: 831-239-9009
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Jake Frantz

Constantly Moving...
Lumbering around in a King Air 90 wishing I was flying an RV
Waiting to pull the trigger on an RV-14
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