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09-14-2012, 07:23 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Novato, CA KDVO
Posts: 377
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Minimum Altitude over water
I was in Destin last week on the beach and a large 4 prop military plane flew over the beach at probably 200'. Of course, I thought it was awesome. The next day I say a T-6 about a mile off the beach doing some turns and stuff about 100' or 200' above the water. Of course, I thought it was awesome.
Got me to thinking, how low can you legally fly above the water, assuming you are not close to people, boats, rigs, etc. I could not remember from my written test, so I pulled this from FAR's.
Sec. 91.119 ? Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
My interpretation of this, is the T-6 was legal, but the military turboprop was not. Maybe the Navy has special rules that allow them to.
I am not trying to start a debate whether flying a 100 feet off the water is safe or not, just if it is legal.
Am I interpreting this right?
__________________
Kyle Gee
Purchased and sold flying RV-6
RV-7 Kit (sold to purchase C150 to train my kids)
Purchased flying RV-7
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09-14-2012, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, TX
Posts: 662
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You are correct. If you do ecide to fly low over water be sure there are no swimmers/surfers/etc within 500'.
Years ago a friend got busted by the feds for flying low over water in a Lear 24. His defense was that he was over open water. Thye fed that saw him said "yes but there were surfers jumping off their boards!"
__________________
Jim Averett
RV-8
TS36 - Silver Wings
Fredericksburg, TX
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09-14-2012, 08:12 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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The military can get away with a little more than we can. I was there 25 years ago and do not miss that type of flying. When you are young and have 2-4 engines, not much scares you.
What is legal is not always safe...ie, "Clear of clouds and 1 mile visibility in class G". I recently made my SECOND(First was due to TS in N Florida) 180* turn, 8 miles West of the Triple Tree Fly-In. Towers were everywhere! Don't depend on that Synthetic Vision...it gives you a false sense of safety. Two hours later, I returned in clear skies. There were all types of planes flying in and out in those conditions. Now I am beginning to realize why our accident rate is so high. My wife and kids were proud of my decision and we still made it back for steak dinner Friday evening. It won't be my LAST 180*!
Over water, I try to stay within gliding distance of shore. I did not over Lake Michigan, but water surface temps were 75F. I was at 12,500-13,500'. I would not do it in any cooler weather. Minimums leave little room for mistakes or malfunctions.
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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
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09-14-2012, 08:19 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hangar/home at Hicks Airfield (T67), Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 629
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Low Flying
If you were near Destin that 4 engined C-130 was probably landing or departing Hurlburt Field and hopefully you were talking to somebody for that special airspace you were in.
I was flying very low just off the beach at Destin and the CFI with me said we were legal since we had floats and any body of water is a potential runway. 
__________________
Mike Reddick
VAF#153
Pilots N Paws Pilot
RV6A N167CW 1,900 HRS
Ft Worth, TX (T67)
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09-14-2012, 08:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrreddick
If you were near Destin that 4 engined C-130 was probably landing or departing Hurlburt Field and hopefully you were talking to somebody for that special airspace you were in.
I was flying very low just off the beach at Destin and the CFI with me said we were legal since we had floats and any body of water is a potential runway. 
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Better yet, I might know which airplane it was, and what they were doing flying that low. Lets just say that checking out girls on the beach is a popular way to check out the sensor systems on the AC-130 Gunships....
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Macon, GA (KMCN)
RV-7, Niner Fife Victor
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09-14-2012, 09:12 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,125
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Out here in California, we have a rather large marine sanctuary and they don't like you lower than 1000' so keep your eyes out for those. I'm not sure if these exist in other parts of the country but I hear that they can throw the book at you for these kinds of violations.
__________________
Kelly Johnson
San Jose, CA
RV-9A
Pink slip issued: 5/7/12
First flight: 5/28/12, Memorial Day.
Phase I Complete: 8/18/12!
2020 donation: complete
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09-14-2012, 10:12 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 351
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Varies between 1000' and 2000'
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Kevin R. Walsh
Cozy Mk-IV
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09-14-2012, 11:16 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Novato, CA KDVO
Posts: 377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrreddick
If you were near Destin that 4 engined C-130 was probably landing or departing Hurlburt Field and hopefully you were talking to somebody for that special airspace you were in.
I was flying very low just off the beach at Destin and the CFI with me said we were legal since we had floats and any body of water is a potential runway. 
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I was laying on the beach. And yes I have flown down the beach in Destin talking with eglin approach before, but was not sure how low I could be. The C-130 was not landing or departing.....it was flying down the beach....must have been checking some sensors, oh and checking out the bikinis.
__________________
Kyle Gee
Purchased and sold flying RV-6
RV-7 Kit (sold to purchase C150 to train my kids)
Purchased flying RV-7
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09-14-2012, 11:23 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 525
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I heard of one $35k fine for a helicopter covering with a film crew while filming a recent movie.
Unfortunately, low ceilings and fog is the norm on the coast.
Also unfortunately, temps are usually around 55 to 60F so there are no bikinis to be seen along our beaches. 
__________________
#40533 RV-10 Builder and CFI
1/2006 Started build
10/19/2011 First flight
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09-14-2012, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchang10
I heard of one $35k fine for a helicopter covering with a film crew while filming a recent movie.
Unfortunately, low ceilings and fog is the norm on the coast.
Also unfortunately, temps are usually around 55 to 60F so there are no bikinis to be seen along our beaches. 
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Helicopters are different - they must have been doing something else -
From the rest of FAR 91.119 not in the original posting..
(d) ?Helicopters. ?Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed In paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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