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  #21  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:11 AM
Wayne Gillispie Wayne Gillispie is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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This was me...Rented, spent way less than owning, lowest satellite tv subscription, cancelled home internet but kept it on the phone, stopped eating out/cook at home, pack leftovers for lunch, stopped taking the annual vacation that everyone thinks you have to take, canceled full coverage on vehicles, paid everything off(banks hate it), saved up for our plane, built our plane and now enjoying at least one family trip a month. Patience my friend. An RV is worth the wait. Oh and find some local RV guys to take you up every 6 mo to keep you on track. Good luck with your navigating to RV country.
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Last edited by Wayne Gillispie : 09-12-2012 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Spelling
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:34 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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A $32,000 RV-4 just came on here this morning and if I were you, I'd jump squarely on it quickly!

Best,
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Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:45 AM
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Neal@F14 Neal@F14 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 2,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
A $32,000 RV-4 just came on here this morning and if I were you, I'd jump squarely on it quickly!
Yep, looks like a very nice, clean basic -4 (in the VAF classifieds, for sale in Utah). I've seen much worse ones sell quickly for lots more money. That one will likely be sold before this weekend is done.
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Neal Howard
Airplaneless once again...
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2012, 09:49 AM
the4ork the4ork is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: california
Posts: 48
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Thanks for all the advice guys, whatever I end up doing it will be cash. We'll see, if I find a good deal on something cheap that I cant pass up I might snag it to fly while I save the rest.
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:37 AM
JDRhodes JDRhodes is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Taylorsville, GA
Posts: 748
Default You don't HAVE to buy.

You can rent a commercially available airplane for 100 hours a year for probably 10 grand. That's a lot of recreational flying. Or - Go to the airport and find a buddy willing to let you fly his airplane for gas and some help on the hangar rent and insurance and you could do it for eaven cheaper.
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RV-9, 7 - going fast
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2012, 11:31 AM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,891
Default The $25K Hamburger

Quote:
Originally Posted by the4ork View Post
I cant quite afford an RV-4 yet, but I would really like to pick something up in the mean time thats two place, similar (although this seems like a stretch) performance, and I prefer a tailwheel. (never flown a tricycle)

I was thinking I could pick up a Sonerai 2 for about half-price of the RV.

the performance is about half but i think it would be a good stepping stone to get me up in the air.

any thoughts?
Hi Richard,

First, thanks for your service. As a former Viper Driver I greatly appreciate what you do, and did.

80% of my customers want an RV but only have 25K to work with. I recommend:

1. RV-3. Arguably the best flying RV. If you intend to fly solo, it's a good option.
2. Cut expenses at home, car payment, cable etc. (Financing an airplane vice a car is cheaper in the long run/less depreciation)
3. Find a partner (s)
4. Buy something else. (see below)
5. Find a project and build, deferring the cost over time.

I have found some great airplanes under 25K for now happy customers. Contrary to popular belief and the Kool Aid profusely distributed on this site, much by me, there are viable alternatives to the RV.

My favorites are in order:

1. Thorp T-18. Why? Great airplane with arguably better control harmony than the RV. The more you explore, the more you'll like. I have about 200 hours in the T-18 and truly like it as well as many RV's I fly, maybe more. The Sunderland (folding) wing and S-18 option has very similar flight characteristics to the RV and can be trailered home. Great owners group, great support and comraderie despite being 1/100 the size of this group. Like PBS, I'm a member RU?. http://thorpaircommand.com

2. Mustang 2: A well supported excellent design with similar RV performance albeit with a Laminar Flow airfoil. Great performance although more like a Comanche, better above 10K. Equal HP M2's can easily compete speed wise with RV's or have a slight edge. Kits are still being made and they have a spirited Yahoo owners group. Find out more at: www.mustangaero.com/

3. Wittman Tailwind: Like the Marines, the Few and the Proud. Despite it's age and numbers, don't be fooled, the W10 Tailwind will match or exceed cruise speeds of any comparable HP RV for way fewer bucks. It is a fabric/steel tube and wood airplane but totally a hoot to fly. The Yahoo owners group is small, dedicated and very tight-knit. http://www.google.com/search?q=wittm...w=1181&bih=596

4. Vari-EZ/Long EZ: Another of my closet favorites. Limited in that it needs pavement and isn't STOL or I would own one. I have about 250 EZ hours when sharing a hangar with a V-EZ. Fast, light and amazingly budget friendly for the HP. http://www.ez.org/resource.htm

5. Pitts: You can't have this much fun for under $25K! There are currently three in Barnstormers for under 25K. Nuff said!

6. Grumman AA-1: The only certified airplane on my list. The 150HP conversions can be found for under 30K and are almost always IFR capable and reasonably fast. They aren't the STOL/Acro machine the RV is, but not much else built by factories vice the Citabria are. There are many others out there in small numbers, BD-4, Sidewinder, Pulsar etc...

If I can help, let me know. Talking is free, email me offline anytime.

Smokey
Smokyray@rocketmail.com
Dues gladly paid in Iraq
Gladly paid to DR anyway...



PS: After 25 years of flying my two low budget RV's and one not so budget RV (HR2) I learned a little bit about EXP aircraft ownership. I have a small business helping people do just what you are doing, finding an RV or an affordable alternative. I built my original RV4 back in 96' for $22K, out the door, in the air, across the country. It was Spartan by any definition, but flew (and still flies) great. My current RVX came in under $30K minus paint and is in the same mold as my RV4. In the current marketplace searching for a $25K airplane and budget you are not alone. Some older RV4's are approaching 30K which reflects much on our current economy. RV's don't have to be expensive, people are just building them that way.

Last edited by smokyray : 09-12-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2012, 12:01 PM
BillFear BillFear is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sherrills Ford, NC (Lake norman area)
Posts: 432
Default I was in the same boat

We were lucky enough to put together a 3 man partnership and then acquired a really nice, fully equipped, IFR RV7a. Don't forget the biggest costs of ownership (hangar, insurance, improvments you want to make). It is really, really nice to be able to split those 3 ways!!!!

Also, made some new friends. Even with 3 people, the plane still only flies 10-20 hours/month.
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Lake Norman, NC (14A)
RV7a N705RP (no longer own)
Contribution in for 2017, money well spent
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2012, 03:01 PM
the4ork the4ork is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: california
Posts: 48
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Im not sure there are a lot of people that want to partner with a 27 year old low time pilot. even if that wasnt the case, ive seen too many partnerships go sour locally, imo its more headache than its worth.
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2012, 03:02 PM
krwalsh krwalsh is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 351
Default Partnership

You know what flies EXACTLY like an RV-4, but costs half as much? Half of an RV-4! Find someone to partner with on the plane. I think even people who would claim they fly "a lot" probably average less than 200 hours per year. That leaves the plane on the ground not being used 97.7% of the time. Find a like-minded partner, sign a good partnership agreement, and enjoy paying half as much for just as much airplane!
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Cozy Mk-IV
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2012, 04:17 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 2,393
Default T18 etc

To add a bit to what Smokey posted the original wing on the T18 can have a rather nasty stall, and this fact is reinforced by the recent accident rate. The same with the MM II, although this seems to be more of a variable dues to differences in construction accuracy on the wing leading edge.

Tailwind: comes in two flavors W8 and W10. W8's date all the way back to 1955(first plans built airplane) Most have four cyl Continentals or Lycomings up to 0 290 D. The airplane does amazingly well on 85 to 100 horsepower. A clean example will do 150 statute cruise with the C85. The stall is incredibly docile. The W10 is for engines up to the 0 320 Lyc although a few have been built with 0 360. The W10 has a longer fuselage, longer wing and all around is a better flying airplane than the W8.W10 prices are generally higher than a RV3 or 4. Red and Marilyn Hamilton have set two consecutive SARL records in their 0 320 W10, 234 and 235 m/h.

There are probably only 100-150 active Tailwinds in the US. Based on this I believe that the Tailwind may have the best accident rate of any EAB aircraft. It also has incredible occupant protection. There are several reports of Tailwinds that were destroyed with no occupant injuries. Considering that many of the older airplanes did not have shoulder harness's this is even more incredible.

groups.yahoo.com/group/tailwindforum for more info.
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