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POSTING RULES

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09-02-2012, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 905
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Why not start a poll? Ask all 12 drivers to check their units and advise results. No need to i.d. if that 's a problem (don't know why it would be tho as we are all in this for the benefit of all the owners). I would be happy to start it but not sure how to. I'll try tho.
By the way I checked mine today and found no issues with the skins, the legs, or the c channel. I have 141 hrs, have landed mostly on paved strips, and had a couple bounces. I suspect that tells us not much.
I will try to setup poll.
Dick Seiders
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09-02-2012, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 905
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Sorry. I have no idea how to find out how to set up poll. Whoever knows please set it up.
I would suggest following:
1. Inspected and no issues detected
2. Cracks found in c channel only
3. wrinlkes found in skin at gear legs only
4. Both 3 and 4
Just a process to organize the numbers. Thanks.
Dick Seiders
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09-02-2012, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 775
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Dick
Is it worth adding
5. Hours flown
Possibly not as don't want it to get too unweildy.
John
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09-02-2012, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 905
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John, I kept it simple as it can expand quickly (like a tree diagram). Also the earlier issues seem to me to be more of a question of how many are there in fact that have been affected. This poll would answer that question as we can take the number of responses and when it's obvious we have what we are going to get we can extrapolate the percentage of each based on total flying. I think that would be a reasonable conclusion. Then again maybe all 200 would respond which would be very factual indeed. I can't believe that anyone flying a 12 would not be interested in this as the results would (could) be a predictor of expected future failures (cracks). However adding that one element you suggest may be helpful. Whoever creates the poll will decide.
Dick Seiders
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09-02-2012, 05:41 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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I don't know why entirely, but some of the owners with the problem don't want to stand up and be counted, so there would be some problem with the numbers there from the timid owners..
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09-02-2012, 05:45 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmwa
Edit: Interestingly, the shape of the cutouts in posts #34 and #60 is quite different. The early one (#60) is a lot narrower.
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I think that is just the angle the photos were taken, several of us compared our holes and it appears they are all the same, but look different from the angle photographed.
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09-02-2012, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Seager
Don It might be interesting to know more about the events that took place to create this damage. From my experience these planes are not too fragile. Lots of conclusion anbd speculation. One would need to evaluate each case to find out a cause and effect. Mike
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I, too, doubt that the aircraft is fragile...IF it is operated within the design parameters, that is, weight, CG limits, max. crosswind component, etc. Other RVs have experienced substantial damage, landing and taxiing, due to crosswind and taxi mishaps. Here are a couple of well documented examples (not RV12s):
This RV-8 had substantial damage from a "crow hop" while turning off the runway:

The pilot fessed up and completely documented the misshap. It required a new quick build fuselage to repair this damage. This is a plane that is built to heavier standards than the 12, and was damaged by what at first seemed like a minor incident.
And this aircraft had suffered a ground loop due to direct crosswind.

The pilot also fessed up and fully documented what happened. This aircraft was for sale at the time of the mishap a was sold "as is".
Here are links to full documentation:
http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Flying.htm
http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/displa...g=128027&row=3
My point is that there probably NOT a design flaw in the RV-12 center section. The aircraft has to be operated within it's design parameters or it could be damaged, like any other. It requires good landing and crosswind technique or it could be damaged, like any other.
Tony
__________________
Tony
E-LSA RV-12 ULS
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09-02-2012, 07:00 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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I have never seen one yet myself, so I cannot answer that. I would assume that other than the part covered up by that flat piece of steel above the mlg, it would be quite visible from underneath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266
Brad or Don, is this visible from on top or underneath the plane?
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09-02-2012, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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More Wrinkles
I just got email notification of another "wrinkle skin" damage in central PA, that makes 8 of them. He had not checked for channel cracking yet, but desires to not be named or identified by plane ID.
As someone said, it does seem strange that only RV12s get the poor pilots, the good ones apparently are buying Skycatchers, Sonex, and Zeniths and not having this type problem due to their superior piloting skils  ..
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09-02-2012, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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I have been out on vacation... so just now seeing some of the posts in this thread.
Instead of anyone attempting to be a personal clearing house for information, or starting an on line poll, may I suggest the the best way to start getting Van's involved would be to use the service difficulty notification process that was put in place specifically for this type of thing. It is documented in the back of the maintenance manual, that every owner of an RV-12 kit received in their documentation package.
It is there specifically for this type of issue, and will allow owners to let Van's know details of a problem without having to put it out on a public forum.
I should emphasize details.
It will be of little help for someone to submit a report of "I have cracks / XXX flight hours"
Provide as much info as possible... runway conditions predominantly used, any other damage other than channel cracks, etc.
BTW, so far this reporting system has been extremely under utilized. I encourage all RV-12 owners to use it, and if they happen to hear another owner mention a problem, encourage them to use also.
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