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08-25-2012, 11:33 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
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...The (Polish? )company allegedly producing Franklins might disolve into thin air, or, they might prosper and do very well...
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This company (PZL) has been building engines as long as Lycoming. And they have been building Franklins for decades. They also build the 1000 HP P&W radial copy that's hanging on the front of all those AN-2 and iron curtain Ag aircraft. The track record of PZL sure appears solid.
I will comment that some of the posts in this thread sure punctuate the difference between "homebuilders" and "kit assemblers". We're talking about an air cooled aircraft engine of approximately the same weight and size of the familiar Lycoming - who cares if you have to build a mount, some brackets and do a little bit of fiberglass work? People have been swapping engines as long as aircraft have been flying. I find it amusing that some of you consider it a major engineering challenge if you can't unwrap the powder coated part from the blister pack and bolt it directly on the airframe.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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08-25-2012, 01:08 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 120
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As far as I am aware PZL, make good engines, I didn't catch the name of the company.
It does seem that I'm getting a little flak, just because I'm not a hard and fast Lycoming fan. Checking out Continental, their engines of comparable power, are 6 cyl's with what looks like the same engine mounting arrangement of the Franklin.
Before anyone sets me alight, I did not check prices, just searched for what they had to offer.
Now. If money was no problem, and I could afford the engine and it's fuel burn, and I was in fantasyland, it would have to be a RR Merlin 60 series, what fun!!
Now where is that elliptical wing?
In fact if I had the money, there is a guy in AZ (I think) that has a full size Spitire IX kit in wood, certified and stressed for a standard Allison(yawn), initial climb is something like 6k ft a minute, and it out performs a standard Spitfire IX.
Now if I had the time, money and space. That’s what I’d be building.
__________________
Roger
A Brit in Texas
RV8 N886LH (Reserved) BuNo 83320
Collecting books/info/tools.
Tail kit arrived! 9/30/2012
Construction started
"The engine's overheating, and so am I! Either we stand down, or blow up! Now which do you want?" Sqn Ldr Canfield.
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08-25-2012, 01:26 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,516
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This thread is not about whether or not the Franklin is a good engine for an RV
and even much less about PZL being a reliable Company.
PZL produces among other things PW PT6' as well as myriad of engine and aircraft components. Like I said, my friend turned out a very nice RV-8 with a 220hp Franklin and the engine seems every bit as good as a comparable Lycoming. I also submit that the cost was about equal to a Lycoming installation in addition to 2 years of extra work that went into building the firewall forward components not to mention the market value of an RV with a Franklin engine.
I challenge any of you to call someone on that Franklin web site and tell me how much and when I can get one these Franklin engines.
I am not bashing the engine or anyone considering installing one of these, just saying you can't get one here in the US.
__________________
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 600 plus hours
Running on E10 mogas
Don't believe everything you know.
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08-25-2012, 01:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N427EF
I challenge any of you to call someone on that Franklin web site and tell me how much and when I can get one these Franklin engines.
I am not bashing the engine or anyone considering installing one of these, just saying you can't get one here in the US.
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I guess, if I decide to go the Franklin route in a few years time I'll be able to answer your question Ernst.
__________________
Roger
A Brit in Texas
RV8 N886LH (Reserved) BuNo 83320
Collecting books/info/tools.
Tail kit arrived! 9/30/2012
Construction started
"The engine's overheating, and so am I! Either we stand down, or blow up! Now which do you want?" Sqn Ldr Canfield.
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08-25-2012, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Linden, NJ
Posts: 44
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I have a carbed Franklin 4 cylinder in my 1941 Cub. A fine engine but parts availability is a total bitch.
The Franklin Engine guys in Texas are selling 6 cylinder fuel injected experimantal engines from PZL.
I get all my 4 cylinder parts from them and they are real straight shooters. Susan is the person to talk to down there, great lady.
I have an RV-8 in slow-mo construction and I plan to power with a Franklin. Yep, it's not a Lyco-saurus, but it aint no small block chevy or other reduction drive engine either.
They had 4 engines on display at KOSH, looked for all the world like a small continental.
PZL announced at KOSH that they are moving from Polnd to Ft Lauderdale in the next 6 months or so. They want to enter the "American built" market.
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08-25-2012, 03:04 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFG
The Franklin Engine guys in Texas are selling 6 cylinder fuel injected experimantal engines from PZL.
I get all my 4 cylinder parts from them and they are real straight shooters. Susan is the person to talk to down there, great lady.
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Ed do you have any contact details, URL? phone number?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFG
PZL announced at KOSH that they are moving from Polnd to Ft Lauderdale in the next 6 months or so. They want to enter the "American built" market.
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That would make sense, because here in the U.S. is where the market(the money) is, compared to say Europe.
__________________
Roger
A Brit in Texas
RV8 N886LH (Reserved) BuNo 83320
Collecting books/info/tools.
Tail kit arrived! 9/30/2012
Construction started
"The engine's overheating, and so am I! Either we stand down, or blow up! Now which do you want?" Sqn Ldr Canfield.
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08-26-2012, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bolts
...That would make sense, because here in the U.S. is where the market(the money) is, compared to say Europe...
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Well, sort of. If you're talking about capturing the E-AB market, then yes. But keep in mind that PZL (along with Rotax and Vedeneyev) is the Lycoming/Continental of Europe. These Franklin clones have been powering the European GA aircraft for a long time.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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08-26-2012, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 1,499
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You are not alone
JT,
Your buddy is not alone. David Brand built a very nice RV-8 with a 220 HP Franklin engine a number of years ago. I've got some photos of his plane [when it was still a project] Very nice workmanship and some nice ideas. Do a search on his name on the Yahoo RV-8 list for more info about his build.
Charlie
PS Your friend should wait to install the wings when running the engine. The wings act as a damper to prevent damage to the fuselage.
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08-26-2012, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 52
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I have a RV8-Franklin 220 flying
I built that sister ship 427EF was mentioning. It runs very nicely and I'm completely happy with my decision so far. Yes it was a bit more work and I had to learn how to work a CAD system and weld stainless steel to make the exhaust, but it was all good.
My engine was built by PZL, however this is not the company that was at KOSH and holds the type cert now. The "Franklin-Engines" company from Poland bought the rights from PZL when Pratt and Whitney bought part of PZL and subsequently closed down the piston engine manufacturing plant for use as a turbine facility. The deal went down maybe 7-8 years ago and I'm pleased to see that Roman Sadowski (CEO) has made some progress with his company since then. Also -- They are not to be confused with April and Susan from Texas. Susan Prall bought her business from George Heinley and was mostly selling NOS, however she has new PMA parts such as rings, valves and possibly now cranks as well.
As far as cost of the engine is concerned, year 2000 I paid 10.5k for the engine plus 2K for for the Ellison TB and governor. I bought the engine without accessories since I wanted to use state of the art (lightweight alternator and starter and a Lightspeed ignition. I understand that Roman is now selling the engine complete with accessories, the price no doubt has gone down, looking at the decay of the US dollar over the last 12 years.
Over all I have no complaints or regrets with the F220, now at 300hrs.
Has anybody heard of David Brand lately?? I tried to contact him a couple of times and got no response...
gary S
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaskuss
JT,
Your buddy is not alone. David Brand built a very nice RV-8 with a 220 HP Franklin engine a number of years ago. I've got some photos of his plane [when it was still a project] Very nice workmanship and some nice ideas. Do a search on his name on the Yahoo RV-8 list for more info about his build.
Charlie
PS Your friend should wait to install the wings when running the engine. The wings act as a damper to prevent damage to the fuselage.
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08-26-2012, 01:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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One way to test its metal
What is the displacement? As we all know this talk and subjective rationalization can go on forever without any clear performance measure. There are three classes of cross country air racing for RVs that your friend could enter that might help in several ways. Check www.sportairrace.org.
RV Red 320 cu. in. or less
RV Blue 360 cu. in. or less
RV Gold 390 cu. in. or less (540 for RV-10s)
Horsepower is not limited. If it is competitive with the others in its class it would become very popular.
Bob Axsom
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