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  #21  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:07 AM
pilotjt's Avatar
pilotjt pilotjt is offline
 
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Default Think again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tooch View Post
I don't think this is "a one of a kind". There was a beautiful -8 at the Franklin booth at Oshkosh. The guy was also raving about how much better his engine is over the Lyc.
That Franklin at Oshkosh wasn't fuel injected, nor does it have half the custom details of this 8....
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  #22  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:13 AM
2bolts 2bolts is offline
 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g zero View Post
If the Franklin is such a great engine why aren't don't we see a ECI , Superior ,Franklin Clone ? . Cold Air Sumps , Exhaust ,Electronic ignitions ,just bolt on a Franklin. Maybe when the Viking Engine Guy gets done with that company he can start a Firewall Fwd Franklin , FFF Engines .
Maybe because Lycomings out number Franklins 10 to 1? (I'm guessing at that ratio).

Quote:
Originally Posted by g zero View Post
The Stinson that had just enough power to make it to the crash site most recent week most likely had one under the cowl . That's why there are some STC's for Continentals and Lycomings for the Old 108 !
Fire suit on !
And an Lycoming, or Continental of equivalent power of the Franklin in the Stinson's involved would have changed the outcomes of those two incidents?

I don't think so sir, what those planes needed was more power, because they were overloaded for the take offs shown, not a Lycoming, or Continental.

It’s a matter of each to their own, I think the Franklin is certainly a viable alternative for a Lycoming. They are a **** of a lot cheaper, even with the 1500 hr TBO. Smoother, that’s probably down to the 6 cyl configuration as against Lycomings 4, on 8’s. The price of a 6 cyl Lycoming Wow! I’d need to sell my house to buy and fly behind one.

If the Franklin was the way for me, when I need an engine, I’ll overcome the engineering problems to get the engine/airframe working.

That's being experimental is all about. So long as the aeroplane is safe, weight, CoG etc.
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A Brit in Texas
RV8 N886LH (Reserved) BuNo 83320
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Last edited by 2bolts : 08-23-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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  #23  
Old 08-23-2012, 10:41 AM
gtmule gtmule is offline
 
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Location: Macon, GA
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Default

Here-here.

I love my O-360, but I love my Franklin-150 as well. With modern lightweight accessories, electronic ignition, a cleaned up intake and exhaust system etc, the 180 hp Franklin would be an awesome engine for an RV. The youtube video (or something I saw) implies that this one is making 195 hp on fuel injection, which seems reasonable.

Franklins were always very well engineered, close tolerance engines. Part of the reason they never took off in the market is that they were more expensive to build than the equivalent Lyc (esp when you consider 4 vs 6 cyls). That isn't as much of an issue with modern manufacturing. The only thing I don't know about is the Franklin's ability to handle acro, because if there's a weakpoint in the 150-165 hp Franklins, it's the crank. This may not apply to the 180-220 hp cranks though.

-Chuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bolts View Post
Maybe because Lycomings out number Franklins 10 to 1? (I'm guessing at that ratio).



And an Lycoming, or Continental of equivalent power of the Franklin in the Stinson's involved would have changed the outcomes of those two incidents?

I don't think so sir, what those planes needed was more power, because they were overloaded for the take offs shown, not a Lycoming, or Continental.

It?s a matter of each to their own, I think the Franklin is certainly a viable alternative for a Lycoming. They are a **** of a lot cheaper, even with the 1500 hr TBO. Smoother, that?s probably down to the 6 cyl configuration as against Lycomings 4, on 8?s. The price of a 6 cyl Lycoming Wow! I?d need to sell my house to buy and fly behind one.

If the Franklin was the way for me, when I need an engine, I?ll overcome the engineering problems to get the engine/airframe working.

That's being experimental is all about. So long as the aeroplane is safe, weight, CoG etc.
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2012, 11:19 AM
JDRhodes JDRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g zero View Post
If the Franklin is such a great engine why aren't don't we see a ECI , Superior ,Franklin Clone ? . Cold Air Sumps , Exhaust ,Electronic ignitions ,just bolt on a Franklin. Maybe when the Viking Engine Guy gets done with that company he can start a Firewall Fwd Franklin , FFF Engines .
The Stinson that had just enough power to make it to the crash site last week most likely had one under the cowl . That's why there are some STC's for Continentals and Lycomings for the Old 108 !
Fire suit on !
There have been LOOOOTTS of O-360 powered Cherokees flown into the trees, too.
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2012, 07:21 PM
g zero g zero is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: palm coast fl.
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Default Franklin

Are they selling Franklins (new) today ? When was the last old one built ? I have never seen or worked on one . I have done some work on Stinsons , one had an o470 firewall forward out of a 182 ,the other a Lycoming 0435 with a strange variable pitch prop .
I know Lycomings aren't cheap , but good used ones , low time , cores are out there . The price of new is almost crazy . Look outside the box for an engine . Lots of Biplanes on barnstormers with o320 and 360's selling for less than $20k.
A friend of mine just picked up a salvage Mooney , it ran out of fuel ,landed on road ,plane was damaged by the crew removing it from the road . I am selling the engine out of it ,0360a1d with all accssories 275 SMOH , can hear it run $12,750 . Find a Franklin for that .
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  #26  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:15 PM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
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http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ranklin+engine

My friend Gary and I set out to build 2 RV-8s about 10 years ago both of us planning to install 220HP Franklins. It was about the time when Van outfitted one of the RV-8 prototypes with a "Franklinstein". No one liked it at Van's.
We both completed the airframe at about the same time when I bailed and decided to go with an Aero Sport IO-360. Long story short, working under similar time constraints, I finished my 8 about 2 years before the Franklin powered 8 flew for the first time.
It's not that I don't like Franklin engines but you can't buy one anywhere and if you do find one you can't get any parts for it. If you do find parts somewhere there is no one left except one or 2 APs who know how to work on them.
Great project if you are in it for the experimentation but don't think you are going to save any money over a Lycoming.
My IO-360 new from Aerosport including AFP fuel injection LSE ignition and
alternator came in at just under $20000.- at the time.
My friends Franklin core was about $11000 plus Ellison TB plus LSE ignition
plus engineering and making an engine mount plus making your own exhaust
system and baffle kit, alternator and all electric fuel pump set up since no mechanical pump can be found for the 220 Franklin. You'll also have to come up with your own intake filter system as well as cowl modifications. You do the math.
His Rv-8 turned out very nice and it does have a nice rumble to it when he taxis up. On a trip to Oshkosh he recorded about 10% better fuel economy
over my IO-360 with fixed pitch Sensenich prop.
I did not build mine with a profit motive in mind, however when it came time to sell my 8 to turn it into money for the RV-10 engine purchase, it was evident that buyers were looking for anything but exotic one of a kind airplanes. For some of us, spending the money on an aircraft represents a lifetime of savings and for others.. well it's just peanuts I guess.
Bottom line, if Franklin engines were actually available for purchase I am sure more builders would consider that option and make it a tough competitor to the tried and true Lycoming. I'd like to see someone put it back into production but like many other promises on alternative engines
I wouldn't waste my time waiting for it.
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2012, 09:27 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g zero View Post
Are they selling Franklins (new) today?
I do not know much about this company but I have seen them at both Sun N Fun and Oshkosh.
http://www.franklin-engines.com/
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2012, 06:47 AM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
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Default No

No.
Notice the wording on their web page? How about price info? I am sure they are trying but you'll have to wait and see.
Inodyne turbines had a nice web page too.

Quote:
We will present new 4 and 6 cylinder engines and a row of spare parts.
The Franklin saga reminds me a lot about the now disappeared "Zogg diesel"
that showed up in Oshkosh for 20 plus years always just about ready for production but never had one of his engines mounted on a flying airplane.
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:02 AM
2bolts 2bolts is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 120
Default I understand what you are saying

Thanks g zero and N427EF, I understand what you are both saying, and thank you for the info, but that doesn't stop Franklin being an option for an engine when the time comes. I might even buy an engine 'kit' and build my own, it all depends on things 2-3 years down the line, which is when I expect to need an engine.

Thanks for the offer of the engine g zero, but I don't have the money, (sounds a good offer).

All my spare cash will go in the Empannage, tools, compressor over the next 3-4 months.

I'm presently waiting on the tail kit, so I've not even got started yet.

If I had the money, I'd buy an 8 that was for sale, or buy the entire kit in one go and just build it, but I can't.

A lot of things can happen during my timeframe, I might win the lottery (I wish, but not likely).

The (Polish? )company allegedly producing Franklins might disolve into thin air, or, they might prosper and do very well.

Anything might happen. All I am saying is that at this moment I consider them a viable option. What about a diesel? What about a radial? With the right radial, the 8 would look even better than it does.
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A Brit in Texas
RV8 N886LH (Reserved) BuNo 83320
Collecting books/info/tools.
Tail kit arrived! 9/30/2012
Construction started

"The engine's overheating, and so am I! Either we stand down, or blow up! Now which do you want?" Sqn Ldr Canfield.
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2012, 12:26 PM
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Jerry Cochran Jerry Cochran is offline
 
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At least the Franklin is/was an engine designed from the get-go for aircraft and not one converted from the automotive world with a way different mission, and for which we have been waiting a long time for viability.

It would be great if we had another option besides Lyco and their ability to ramp up prices at will. Continental... where are you guys anyway?

BTW, an A/P friend of mine tells me that if you must have a Franklin, then a "Heavy Case" model is the way to go...

.
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