|
-
POSTING RULES

-
Donate yearly (please).
-
Advertise in here!
-
Today's Posts
|
Insert Pics
|

08-21-2012, 05:00 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 115
|
|
NextGen Security Research
One of the aviation newsletters had this link to a story about NextGen security research, specifically ADS-B. Apparently some security experts are concerned about vulnerability from hackers. Interesting story so I thought I would post here.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechcons...stem-be-hacked
__________________
David Lewis
RV-7A
Airframe complete
Engine mounted
Working on FWF and electrical
|

08-21-2012, 06:13 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,295
|
|
First, I'm a big computer programmer/security kind of guy -- it's what I do for a living.
A 'hacker' is not a bad person, but a person who likes to (as the article states) figure out how things work. The bad guys are called 'black hats' or 'crackers' because they like getting access to systems they are not authorized to use.
When I first heard about NextGen and it's implementation I was floored. We in the security world have been scratching our heads over it for a while.
I could not believe that they spec'd out a standard and spent billions on it without any sort of cryptographic signing of the messages. None. It would actually take a decent EE no time at all to spoof ADS-B messages. This is a failure of the FAA and the associated companies. I still can't believe they did it.
I would love to know *why* they didn't do it. The standards that would allow them to do it are open, published and incredibly secure. My assumption is that the messages aren't signed because of the procedures involved with maintaining a database of public keys or certs of each ADS-B transponder, etc. It would actually be quite trivial to implement an X.509 certificate chain from the FAA->Avionics Shop->Transponder so that other ADS-B transponders and the FAA would know that the message was valid. The plus side (from the FAA's perspective) would be that they could have the certificates expire automatically so they would know when transponders are out of certification.
And I guess on top of all that there's the problem of what to do if a spoofed message is detected in the first place. If a spoofed message says an aircraft is on a collision course with a known good aircraft -- does the controller just ignore the unauthenticated aircraft? Nope.
__________________
"What kind of man would live where there is no daring? I don't believe in taking foolish chances but nothing can be accomplished without taking any chance at all." - Charles A. Lindbergh
Jamie | RV-7A First Flight: 7/27/2007 (Sold)
|

08-21-2012, 06:55 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,565
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
First, I'm a big computer programmer/security kind of guy -- it's what I do for a living.
|
Same here - my background is systems engineering and software engineering for security and embedded control systems. And I have had the same reaction to ADS-B. I can't believe it's still a viable plan going forward - RADAR will always be a part of ATC in a post-9/11 world and given that, I'm not at all convinced that the benefits provided by ADS-B outweigh the costs and risks it poses.
Plan accordingly, I suppose...
__________________
Brad Benson, Maplewood MN.
RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
If you're not making mistakes, you're probably not making anything
|

08-21-2012, 07:26 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 110
|
|
I have had similar thoughts on the security of CPDLC.
Oh, and good luck with redefining the term 'hacker'. TV, books, newspapers, magazines, comic books, and movies beginning in the early eighties to now are not helping your cause. 
__________________
RV-7
In progress...
Last edited by LeeM_2000 : 08-21-2012 at 08:00 PM.
|

08-22-2012, 02:53 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 52
|
|
I guess my naive question would be: what does a cracker/hacker have to gain from the effort involved? Seems a bit like the increasingly irrelevant argument about why there were few viruses targeted at Macs: the number of PCs was simply much larger = larger audience/impact.
__________________
Frazer Middleton
Alpharetta, GA
Paid =VAF= dues for 2013
Friend of the RV-1 http://www.rv-1.org
|

08-22-2012, 03:55 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 661
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
First, I'm a big computer programmer/security kind of guy -- it's what I do for a living.
[snip]
I could not believe that they spec'd out a standard and spent billions on it without any sort of cryptographic signing of the messages. None. It would actually take a decent EE no time at all to spoof ADS-B messages. This is a failure of the FAA and the associated companies. I still can't believe they did it.
[snip]
I would love to know *why* they didn't do it.
|
I have been a Unix/Venix/Xenix/Linux developer since the PDP-8 days back in the late 60's (retired now). The only thing that makes any sense to me is NextGen wasn't designed to replace the current system; it was designed to quietly put in place a method where all aircraft operations could be tracked and documented. Once the master aircraft operations data base is implemented it is then a simple task to automatically debit a credit card for all "USER FEE" operations as they occur. All violations can also easily be targeted and used as the basis of a new revenue stream from the associated fines.
I am usually not an alarmist but this really scares me. The free weather and traffic, that is just the candy to deflect your attention from the real purpose.
Jamie, I still owe you that gold cleco, will get it to you before the snow flies. Are you going to Petit Jean or the Bad Lands this year?
__________________
______________________
Steve Eberhart, W9JUQ
3EV - Evansville, IN
Where is Steve and the Sky Terrier?
RV-7A Slider, O-360 A1A, Catto 3 blade, 2 screen Garmin G3X Classic, GTN 650, Bionics APRS. FLYING since June 24, 2009
EAA Chapter 21
Last edited by newtech : 08-22-2012 at 03:59 AM.
|

08-22-2012, 08:24 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 827
|
|
What Newtech says struck me like a thunderbolt! It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you just hit the nail smack on the head with a sledge hammer!
I'm not a computer guy, but it would seem that ADS-B transceivers need to be designed from the ground up with encryption capability and a way to update their software. Since that hasn't been done, would that make all the current hardware on the market useless if data security does become "required"?
What's in it for the "hackers"... because they can. The world is full of devilish thinkers. I heard this issue on NPR yesterday, I couldn't believe the FAA/FCC would impliment a critical use data stream system without security.... but they have. They are either idiots or as cleaver as Newtech says. I vote for some of the first and most of the later. I fear we're being had by the government, surprise anyone?
Honestly, it's one of the reasons I'm not buying into ADS-B until the last shoe drops.
__________________
Long-EZ built 1985 -> Sold 2007
RV-9A; N539RV First Flight: 7/2010
RV-8A N468DL 40 hr Flight Test Program
Building Log: www.mykitlog.com/n539rv
APRS Tracking: aprs.fi/n539rv
2017 Paid
|

08-22-2012, 01:49 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 115
|
|
Here's an update with an FAA response to the ADS-B "spoofing" concern.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...-vulnerability
__________________
David Lewis
RV-7A
Airframe complete
Engine mounted
Working on FWF and electrical
|

08-22-2012, 02:30 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO Approach
Posts: 204
|
|
from what i've heard, it can pretty much filter out any "spoofed" target before a controller ever sees it. certainly hope so 
|

08-22-2012, 02:53 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
Posts: 2,416
|
|
Surprised? not really
...all this from the same gummint agencies that allowed LightSquared to proceed to the 11th hour with their cel network plans....until WE ( the collective) told them it was a bad idea.
hmmm, what IS happening with that anyway???
__________________
Perry Y.
RV-9a - SOLD!....
Lake Country, BC
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:29 AM.
|