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08-19-2012, 07:26 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: George West, TX
Posts: 567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe
Just go to Flyaware website and see how many RVs are flying into Class B or C or above 10K in comparison to Mooneys or Cirrus which has a similar population. I found a typical ratio of 10 Mooneys/Cirrus per 1 RV. This does not surprise me since it is rare that I hear ATC talking to an RV pilot.
Pepe
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I have an SL30 & SL40 to help ensure I can talk to ATC. Near misses highly detract from my fun of flying. I'm getting ADSB complient as soon as Brantel, Stein & other electronic Gurus agree on what I need. I want to SEE & be SEEN. Smacking a bird is bad enough; but comeon, hitting metal is not good & is very possible. I keep my eyes outside & have a swivel neck; but want ALL the help I can get.
I sincerely hope others feel the same. Let's be safe & have fun.
Cheers,
__________________
Deal Fair
RV-4 (N34CB)
George West, TX (8T6)
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08-19-2012, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe
I don't think the majority of experimental aircraft owners have to worry about the 2020 mandate since they don't fly into class B or C airports with expensive fuel and FBOs services. I fly often to Raleigh and stop landing at KRDU (AVGAS $7.67) class C and went for KJNX (AVGAS $5.60) class E due to $100 in fuel savings and friendlier atmosphere. I don't see any experimentals on the class C ramp FBOs and much less on the class B ramps. Why would you go to a B or C FBO where they charge you more and none has MOGAS. Check on fuel prices at AirNav and you will see a big difference between those at B & C and those at E or D.
Pepe
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Plenty of Rv's and other experimentals based at the airports around Phoenix within the mode C veil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobinbasford
Wow Pepe, that's a big statement! I believe there are a LOT of RVs that live in and around class B and C airspace throughout this nation. Not to mention traveling on cross country flights would greatly be hindered if you had to circumvent all Class B and C. And then there's the 10,000' rule. Summer time often finds lots of RVs above 10K', especially if you live out west in the mountains. I dare say I've been in, over, or through every Class B and most Class C's in this country in my RV over the past 8 years just from normal, everyday CCXs. I know I'm not alone!
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Pretty much my thoughts as well.
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08-19-2012, 07:40 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe
Just go to Flyaware website and see how many RVs are flying into Class B or C or above 10K in comparison to Mooneys or Cirrus which has a similar population. I found a typical ratio of 10 Mooneys/Cirrus per 1 RV. This does not surprise me since it is rare that I hear ATC talking to an RV pilot.
Pepe
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Those are just folks who file flight plans or use flight following. It conservatively estimate we have hundreds of RV's in the Houston area that live within the Class B (Mode C) veil and fly regularly. The only way this won't affect you is if you live in the middle of nowhere and don't fly cross-country much. Granted, there are lots of RV'ers that only have their airplanes for local recreational flying - but a huge number that use them for transportation.
The RV community is quite large, and this will affect many people and airplanes.
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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08-19-2012, 07:52 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
Those are just folks who file flight plans or use flight following. It conservatively estimate we have hundreds of RV's in the Houston area that live within the Class B (Mode C) veil and fly regularly. The only way this won't affect you is if you live in the middle of nowhere and don't fly cross-country much. Granted, there are lots of RV'ers that only have their airplanes for local recreational flying - but a huge number that use them for transportation.
The RV community is quite large, and this will affect many people and airplanes.
Paul
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So assuming there are equal number of Cirrus and RVs flying around in class B or C RV pilots just don't file or use flight following. Why Cirrus pilots do it and not RV pilots?
Pepe
[ed. Troll. Banned. dr]
Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 08-20-2012 at 05:35 AM.
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08-19-2012, 08:01 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
Posts: 1,523
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All the time
I fly between 250-300 RV hours a year, mostly cross country to shows. It would be very detrimental to have to avoid mode C airspace, actually, it would be a pain in the BUTT.
ADSB is coming and to have a useful airplane you are going to have to participate.
__________________
Jerry "Widget" Morris
RV 8, N8JL, 3,000+ hours on my 8.
VAF #818
Saint Simons Island, GA. KSSI
PIF 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
 I just wish I could afford to live the way I do
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08-19-2012, 08:03 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe
So assuming there are equal number of Cirrus and RVs flying around in class B or C RV pilots just don't file or use flight following. Why Cirrus pilots do it and not RV pilots?
Pepe
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I know I am getting baited....
This is not a discussion about flight plans or flight following. I do not believe Cirrus pilots are different than RV pilots. They just fly a different aircraft.
Sorry, I am a long time lurker, and a new member. My apologies if this comment is not in good taste with the wide range of membership here.
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08-19-2012, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 1,499
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Guys, don't feed the troll. Pepe is Jose Monroy, owner of Monroy Avionics, maker of a passive traffic product which is becoming less useful as ADS-B gains traction. He has a huge bias against ADS-B because of that.
--Ian Jordan
Dynon Avionics
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08-19-2012, 10:31 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
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I'm not into ADS-B either, just based on the concept that I am forced to buy avionics, and carry it's weight, so someone else can use it. I fly out of an airport that is inside the mode C veil.
Thankfully, 2020 is a long ways away in computer developement terms.
I expect it will be obsolete by the time it's required, like microwave landing, who thinks of it now that WAAS is working?
Now you can buy a hand held device that give you ADS-B weather on iPad. That sure was not intended, but what a great work around 
ADS-B IN weather was supposed to be the carrot that helped convince one to buy in to equipping with ADS-B OUT.
Why would you want all these expensive government contracted ground stations when internet service would provide better service and is already established? Plus, it's multi use and serves the wider public.
Avionics will end up moving this way because it will be better in every way except the political way.
Knowing the history of avionics developement, and failed government mandates...Many pilots I know are adopting a wait and see attitude, especially in light of the 'not completely defined' nature of the FAAs rule making. Who wants to equip a $40,000 airplane with $10,000 of avionics that you 'hope' will be in compliance with the newest Nextgen rule?
__________________
Scott Emery
http://gallery.eaa326.org/v/members/semery/
EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
There is nothing-absolute nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing around with Aeroplanes
(with apologies to Ratty)
2019
Last edited by SHIPCHIEF : 08-19-2012 at 10:42 PM.
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08-20-2012, 06:23 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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[ed. Troll. Banned. dr]
Thanks Doug,
Sorry for feeding the troll on his last rant about ADSB...Thanks to Ian and Stein for pointing out who he really is on that thread.
[ed. No worries, Mon! dr]
Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 08-20-2012 at 08:37 AM.
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08-20-2012, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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I think I will delay worrying a little longer
Yes, I do not like the Government knowing my every move. I talk only when required. That's my preference as long as I am still allowed to have one. To think today's technology, excellence of design, regulations and price are going to remain stable for 7 or 8 years ... well I guess it could happen - I just haven't seen it in my life time. If I should live to see 2020 I'll just buy the latest compatible whiz box and put it in.
Bob Axsom
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