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04-27-2011, 05:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266
So what is next if the vernatherm is working properly? Fly it and see or are you going to pursue other cooling measures?
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After I give the vernatherm seat in the oil filter housing a good look it will be onward to other measures.
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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04-27-2011, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 2,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
Thanks for the information, including the "how they work" information. I was most curious. Similar operating principle to an automotive coolant thermostat, as I expected. Roughly the same failure mode, too. In any case, nice to know a little more about the inner workings of these engines.
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Maybe I don't understand what is meant above by "similar", but vernatherms could be considered the opposite principle to an automotive thermostat. The vernatherm is a normally open valve, which closes off as it warms up.
Vernatherm cold = flow through both the cooler and the internal bypass (in the engine). These two circuits are in parallel. Some sort of mysterious flow balance occurs between the two circuits when the oil is cold. This balance or lack thereof might explain why some engines' oil run so cool in the winter while others don't.
Vernatherm hot = closes the internal bypass circuit, making all flow go through the cooler. If cooler blocked, relief spring on the vernatherm allows oil to go through the internal bypass circuit anyway.
I think.
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Alex Peterson
RV6A N66AP 1700+ hours
KADC, Wadena, MN
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04-27-2011, 07:09 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 1,156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexPeterson
Maybe I don't understand what is meant above by "similar", but vernatherms could be considered the opposite principle to an automotive thermostat. The vernatherm is a normally open valve, which closes off as it warms up.
Vernatherm cold = flow through both the cooler and the internal bypass (in the engine). These two circuits are in parallel. Some sort of mysterious flow balance occurs between the two circuits when the oil is cold. This balance or lack thereof might explain why some engines' oil run so cool in the winter while others don't.
Vernatherm hot = closes the internal bypass circuit, making all flow go through the cooler. If cooler blocked, relief spring on the vernatherm allows oil to go through the internal bypass circuit anyway.
I think.
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Alex- I was referring to the expanding wax pellet part of the function. An automotive thermostat has the same thing. The expansion of the wax pellet is used to opposite effect in a vernatherm, but the wax doesn't know that. And they fail the same way- rubber seal sticks, wax gets out, etc. Motion ceases to occur.
Actually I'm betting that vernatherms are manufactured more carefully- my luck with automotive thermostats has been abysmal. My wife always, always, pays attention to the water temp gauge/idiot light in any car she may be driving. There's a story behind that...
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Lars Pedersen
Davis, CA
RV-7 Flying as of June 24, 2012
960+ hours as of June 30, 2020. Where did the time go?
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04-30-2011, 07:55 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: phx
Posts: 61
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hey Dan H
hey Dan H
well i have seen some what the same thing and today i was trying some things to get the vernatherm to work sooner and it worked in climb
but then i was turning things on and off like lights, strobes and if i turn all on my oil temp goes to 300+ if i turn every thing of then from 215 it goes to 195 so tomorrow im doing a full test at alt
my old vernaterm was 0.02 longer than the new one
if you would like to call heres my number 602 697 4080
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Mike Poulsen
Phoenix
RV 6 TURBO
N 694 MP
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04-30-2011, 11:34 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike in phx
hey Dan H
well i have seen some what the same thing and today i was trying some things to get the vernatherm to work sooner and it worked in climb
but then i was turning things on and off like lights, strobes and if i turn all on my oil temp goes to 300+ if i turn every thing of then from 215 it goes to 195 so tomorrow im doing a full test at alt
my old vernaterm was 0.02 longer than the new one
if you would like to call heres my number 602 697 4080
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I would look for a wiring problem.......... bad ground??
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04-30-2011, 11:48 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: phx
Posts: 61
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already
that was the first thing i looked at
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Mike Poulsen
Phoenix
RV 6 TURBO
N 694 MP
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06-23-2011, 12:17 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike in phx
that was the first thing i looked at
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I would continue looking at that. The electrical load shouldn't affect the engine operating temps much at all. If you are really seeing 300? oil, it would be burning/black in the engine, and coking everything up. Check for electrical issues again, and if there aren't any, I would NOT fly until that is resolved.
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Stephen Samuelian, CFII, A&P IA, CTO
RV4 wing in Jig @ KPOC
RV7 emp built
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08-05-2012, 06:36 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: fort worth,Texas
Posts: 22
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Lycoming Vernatherm
Does anyone out there know the difference between PN 53E22144A and just 53E22144 ? Just checking.
Thanks
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08-05-2012, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike in phx
hey Dan H
well i have seen some what the same thing and today i was trying some things to get the vernatherm to work sooner and it worked in climb
but then i was turning things on and off like lights, strobes and if i turn all on my oil temp goes to 300+ if i turn every thing of then from 215 it goes to 195 so tomorrow im doing a full test at alt
my old vernaterm was 0.02 longer than the new one
if you would like to call heres my number 602 697 4080
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There is no way turning on electrical loads could cause actual high oil temps, you have an indication problem.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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08-08-2017, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 63
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As a data point, I have a Mattituck 360 in my RV7. The AEL19600 Vernatherm worked great till recently. I was concerned about my engine as the oil temp seemed to be running away except at low power settings. Today I tested the ECI thermostatic controller. It only moved about .030" in boiling water. It has about 300hrs on it. Today I ordered the Superior unit from A/C Spruce to replace it.
Bob
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