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  #21  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:31 PM
ReidVaitor ReidVaitor is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SoCal
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Default Skyview

A couple of items. Dynon support is excellent for builders and flyers alike. Believe me, I have tested this to the max and everytime Dynon has come through.
Robert and the team at Dynon are honest and will tell you what is going on. When considering a purchase think.. what about after the purchase? I wont name names but there is a certain name mentioned here that is big in certified world- think twice about free database and support is my caution with that company, sure the eye candy is nice but what about when there is a problem- Dynon replaces and resolves issues.. FREE.
Data logging- Have it with my VP200, nice for the hour I used it for Lean of peak testing and fine tuning otherwise never ever have used it. As Jae says, take pictures of the screen as your flying, that has been much more effective for me.
I am grabbing a list mentioned above- I mean no disrespect as the points are valid but just my .02 on this;
-Cant send radio frequencies to comm - that may be nice but I am dealing with not having it. I have mine setup for it when it is released. With that said there are 5 serial connections on a Skyview I am MAXED out on them all with all the Dynon interconnectivity so check how mant GRT, Advanced/Trutrak, and Garmin offer, you will need them.
-Doesnt have checklist capabilities- my VP-200 has it and it sure beats the paper, but there is paper and that takes up less space on a Skyview screen.If I had to look at the checklist on my Skyview I probably would not use it, the VP200 does it as part of an automated phase for me automatically (using GPS and engine data from a Skyview Serial connection(s)) so there is a benefit versus needing to scroll through pages of a checklist- easier to do on paper for me.
-Doesnt have weight and balance calculator abilities- There is a nice app for the RV-10 out there by Greg Hale. Do the W&B before you're in the plane not before departing, sucks battery while doing the numbers- AFS has it today if that is important.
-Doesnt have any 'switch fuel tank' or other custom reminder timers- When my wing gets heavy I switch.. kidding but I look at fuel consumption and probably switch 1 time per hour. I do see a benefit to this however if someone needs a 20 minute switch over (for me the less I move something the better)

As one can tell, I am a happy camper, I have asked for terrain/mapping improvements and Dynon has continued to improve on that. They listen to the Forums and the squeeky wheel gets the oil in the next release (usually)
They are working on all in one by having their own transponder ADS-B complaint, recently released weather and traffic using their transponder for ftraffic, they are discussing releasing their own COMM radio, etc.. in the end they are going where the G1000 is, once screen for everything..

Last note on Robert's comment- Databases may be free but if you want to use their solid mapping software/Synthetic vision you need to buy a license for that, than it's free forever more..

Hope this gives a different perspective for you and some ideas when comparing PFD and avionics.
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:11 AM
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ColoRv ColoRv is offline
 
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I don't think anyone questions Dynon's honesty, or any of the suppliers really. They have all had schedules slip here and there. My biggest question with Dynon is engineering size. What an EFIS can do today isn't nearly as important as what they can design into it tomorrow as new tech surfaces. The Dynon D1 is their new release and it seems to me that the skyview system has lagged seriously behind its competition while the engineers were developing the D1. Having spent years of my youth in R&D electronics for Chrysler and Martin Marietta, I know for certain that number of bodies combined with experience (read as expense) of those bodies means a lot. When I see a company lag behind their competition, making 'soon' promises that stretch out to years....I have to wonder about the size of their engineering muscle or their commitment to the product. As we always said, if we are a model year behind we have lost the race.

Data logging has a lot more functional use than a picture of a screen. Having to fly an aircraft that has an issue with it, in order to gather info on that issue is a safety issue to me and it's been requested on Dynon's forums since the system was released.

The Dynon system does everything outside of the display and uses serial connections for most of it. Counting serial connections on the competition isn't relevant since they don't communicate the same way nor do everything in separate boxes.

Yes, we can use paper for checklists but if the Skyview is priced within reach of its competition, it's going to have its features compared head to head. If its missing a checklist function or other small things, well it's 15% cheaper so no big deal. But it's also missing radio functions, XM, vertical auto pilot nav, plates, etc. Clearly, for every builder there is going to be a number. Save me X amount of money and I'll do without Y amount of functionality. There is also likely a list of functions that each builder thinks a 10 thousand dollar system should have regardless.

In the end we each pull out our checkbook based on our own list of criteria. I have spent a couple thousand on Dynon gear already, but this Oshkosh trip has convinced me to send it back.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2012, 06:56 PM
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vlittle vlittle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoRv View Post
... I have spent a couple thousand on Dynon gear already, but this Oshkosh trip has convinced me to send it back.
You certainly have that right. Dynon's SV is not as feature-rich as some of their competitors, but you must determine if a feature is a must-have or a nice-to-have. Also, fewer but better (more reliable) features may be a better choice.

Despite my defence of Dynon, I am puzzled by some of their product planning decisions lately. For example, there are many Comm vendors, so why is Dynon replicating mature, readily available products? They licensed a transponder from Trig, so why not a Comm as well? To add insult to injury, they don't even support the defacto standard SL-40 frequency download protocol.

The D1 is an interesting product, and may enhance Dynon's revenue in the certified market, but where is a 3" SkyView compatible EFIS of similar feature set?

Why an ADS-B receiver 8 years before ADS-B is fully deployed, and will not useful in any country except the USA? XM weather is more widely available (but more expensive)--but not supported.

Great company, great products, great support, but lagging in function and features. Keep the pressure on and maybe they'll focus more on their key (EFIS) business.

Readers may notice that I have become quite cricial of Dynon despite being a long time user (and future user). Just call it tough love.
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  #24  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:35 PM
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dynonsupport dynonsupport is offline
 
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SL-40/30 COM support will come as we support our own radio. And per usual Dynon features, will be much more full featured than you expect or would have thought possible.
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:04 PM
Flying Scotsman Flying Scotsman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlittle View Post
You certainly have that right. Dynon's SV is not as feature-rich as some of their competitors, but you must determine if a feature is a must-have or a nice-to-have. Also, fewer but better (more reliable) features may be a better choice.

Despite my defence of Dynon, I am puzzled by some of their product planning decisions lately. For example, there are many Comm vendors, so why is Dynon replicating mature, readily available products? They licensed a transponder from Trig, so why not a Comm as well? To add insult to injury, they don't even support the defacto standard SL-40 frequency download protocol.

The D1 is an interesting product, and may enhance Dynon's revenue in the certified market, but where is a 3" SkyView compatible EFIS of similar feature set?

Why an ADS-B receiver 8 years before ADS-B is fully deployed, and will not useful in any country except the USA? XM weather is more widely available (but more expensive)--but not supported.

Great company, great products, great support, but lagging in function and features. Keep the pressure on and maybe they'll focus more on their key (EFIS) business.

Readers may notice that I have become quite cricial of Dynon despite being a long time user (and future user). Just call it tough love.
I think I'd agree with the concern over feature prioritization...granted I'm not done building yet (soon, dear God...soon ), but...although the ADS-B box will be nice for weather and traffic, I'd rather have had them complete things like autopilot capabilities (coupled approaches, etc.) before moving on to other things. I'm confident they'll get them all in eventually, though, including all the features others have that they don't (yet) like VFR and IFR georeferenced charts, etc. All in due time...

But yes, the choice in what to add or finish seems a bit odd to me...but I'm not in Marketing, either, FWIW.
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  #26  
Old 07-26-2012, 05:14 AM
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Kevin Horton Kevin Horton is offline
 
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Buy the product that does what you want on the day you make the decision. Don't give any credit to promises of features that are coming in the future, as you cannot be sure those features will ever be delivered, or that they will work in a way that you find satisfactory.
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  #27  
Old 07-26-2012, 03:48 PM
60av8tor 60av8tor is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Horton View Post
Buy the product that does what you want on the day you make the decision. Don't give any credit to promises of features that are coming in the future, as you cannot be sure those features will ever be delivered, or that they will work in a way that you find satisfactory.
Very sound advice IMO. Would hate to spend the amount of money required for the panel based on promises. Not to say they won't come to fruition, but if not...
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2012, 04:11 PM
Norman CYYJ Norman CYYJ is offline
 
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Four years ago one of the EFIS manufactures promised me a fix and to this day they have not got around to correcting the software. But they have successfully come out with many new revisions and bigger screens and auto-pilots etc.
The problem, the EFIS won't decode XM Canadian weather. All of their completion does.
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2012, 08:50 PM
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Mike D Mike D is offline
 
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Disclaimer: I have a GRT.

This is a never ending debate and I try to stay out of these. I agree with Stein about different EFIS's for different folks. I also agree with Kevin on buy what is done, not on what is promised.

I waited for SV to come out before buying. I was set to buy the SV, but when it came out there were too many promises that GRT already had implemented.

Every feature listed on this thread so far is already on the GRT HXr. But with that said, it's just a software update away from all the others having the same thing.

I went to OSH with a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket to do my 3rd panel. But no go. Too much confusion.

I am not set on GRT, but the others have some minuses I, personally, can't live with. I will name names.

Dynon SV is a great system but I want it to work with my TT auto pilot and have more inputs. I dont like the split screens. Don't like the toy like graphic icons.

Garmin is great also and they are about as guaranteed as you get to being around in the future, but the screen size and proportion are lacking. Like the new ADSB module. Wish it would work with the others.

AFS is nice, but I need a better test drive to be convinced. The pro's and con's with AFS are too similar to GRT for me to switch. I like the graphics and the look of the hardware.

GRT is a great system and I love the new way of data display (no split screens). But GRT is not the most popular supplier and I do worry about the Blue Mt. syndrome. But they have an super upgrade program and this will most likely keep me with GRT.

MGL is nice and they have had some great improvement but I don't like the hardware as much as the others

In the meantime, I will just upgrade the audio panel and start looking for a deal on a 430W.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2012, 09:16 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman View Post
I think I'd agree with the concern over feature prioritization...granted I'm not done building yet (soon, dear God...soon ), but...although the ADS-B box will be nice for weather and traffic, I'd rather have had them complete things like autopilot capabilities (coupled approaches, etc.) before moving on to other things. I'm confident they'll get them all in eventually, though, including all the features others have that they don't (yet) like VFR and IFR georeferenced charts, etc. All in due time...

But yes, the choice in what to add or finish seems a bit odd to me...but I'm not in Marketing, either, FWIW.
Not even going to start with trying to defend their priorites, cuz Lord knows I don't agree with them - but...

ADSB weather and traffic has been on the "must-have" list of a large segment of the builder population for a while now, since it was announced. The US contingent of privately-built aircraft is by far the largest in the world so this market makes perfect sense for the first products. ADSB is about half promise and half vaporware right now, and the early entrants into this market with a real product will gain market share just because they are there. This ADSB move on Dynons part (even if it's not the best possible product) will gain them a huge market share and pilot following, which makes it a very smart business decision. Not saying I agree with the way it was done, but it was a smart move.
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