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  #1  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:25 PM
Hack Hack is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 65
Default Jet A Capable SMA SR305-230E-C1

Many of you have probably heard about this engine going into the $0.5M C-182. If not google it and you will get the poop.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone heard of an engine of this type that might fit into an envelope similar to IO 320/360?
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:55 PM
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pmccoy pmccoy is offline
 
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Location: Orange County CA
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Default Interesting

Here is the link to another story on this. It states the engine will burn 30 to 40 percent less fuel. Wow!

http://www.gascaviation.com/blog/201...urbodiesel-182
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:29 PM
gerrychuck gerrychuck is offline
 
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Location: Moose Jaw, SK, Canada
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Default

Maybe my memory is faulty (distinct possibility) but I seem to recall a version of the french Socata singles (Trinidad, I believe) with a diesel in place of the usual 360. Don't remember who made it, though. More recently, the Thielert Centurion engines used in the Diamond twin were retrofitted into a 172 at one point; very compact small-displacement turbo-diesel and very fuel-efficient.
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Moose Jaw Saskatchewan
RV6A "Second Wind" C-GERZ (born N242UL)
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Last edited by gerrychuck : 07-24-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:01 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrychuck View Post
More recently, the Thielert Centurion engines used in the Diamond twin were retrofitted into a 172 at one point; very compact small-displacement turbo-diesel and very fuel-efficient.
But plagued with very high cost, maintenance, and a short TBR (time between REPLACEMENT - no overhaul allowed). This new development, while still overpriced, is at least in the right place with efficiency and ability to reach TBO versus TBR. Time will tell.
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Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
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Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2012, 06:51 AM
JDRhodes JDRhodes is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Taylorsville, GA
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmccoy View Post
Here is the link to another story on this. It states the engine will burn 30 to 40 percent less fuel. Wow!

http://www.gascaviation.com/blog/201...urbodiesel-182
The O-470's in the "older" C-182s burned 12-14 gph. Probably 13-15 gph in the newer Lyc powered Skylanes. At a posted 11 gph for the deisel, that's not really a 30-40% savings. Jet A is cheaper and more available, though.

I also can't imagine that the airplane will be (only) $515,000. Aren't the regular current C-182s going for more than that new now?
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:19 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
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Location: Boulder, CO
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The O-470 in my Cessna 180 typically burns 9 to 11 gph depending on altitude. When I need oxygen, it's usually lower by around 1 to 1.5 gph.

Cruise is about 140 kts.

The only time I saw 14 gph in "cruise" was when I was racing someone.

Dave
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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bill@fusion4.net bill@fusion4.net is offline
 
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Location: Suwanee, GA
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Default Would love to put one in My RV-10

6 years ago when I was just dreaming of building, I had always though I would put a turbo normalized diesel or other modern engine in the plane I built. I know enough now that I am not holding my breath waiting on a firewall forward kit for my 10 that will be done end of next year. Maybe in 10 years when I need to do an overhaul.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2012, 10:11 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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I don't understand the part about Lycoming's involvement in this announcement. Continental, not Lycoming was involved with the SMA to develop it further after multiple problems in use reaching anywhere close to TBO/TBR.

This engine is limited to 12,000 feet due to turbocharger N1 limits as well so I don't see how it will replace the SI turbo 182. Finally, the current cost will not allow it to save any money over its life cycle as acquisition costs are up front and fuel costs are spread out over the operating time. This assumes Continental can actually make the changes to get the engine to run to TBO/TBR reliably.

The diesel makes sense in places with poor avgas availability, high avgas costs and only when the manufacturer can offer the engines at a price close to the SI engines they replace and get equal or better reliability and TBO out of them. Historically the original Thielert and SMA did none of these things. Hopefully Continental or Lycoming can turn this around with some hard work, good engineering and extensive testing.
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Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2012, 11:22 AM
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dhammer dhammer is offline
 
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Location: Keller, TX
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
This engine is limited to 12,000 feet due to turbocharger N1 limits as well so I don't see how it will replace the SI turbo 182. Finally, the current cost will not allow it to save any money over its life cycle as acquisition costs are up front and fuel costs are spread out over the operating time. This assumes Continental can actually make the changes to get the engine to run to TBO/TBR reliably.
Per the manufacturer the service ceiling is now 20k. I think they started building their own turbocharger. TBO is 2400hrs
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2012, 12:57 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhammer View Post
Per the manufacturer the service ceiling is now 20k. I think they started building their own turbocharger. TBO is 2400hrs
That makes it much more useful in the mountains.

The TBO was initially 2000 hours but most of the engines were being replaced within 300-600 hours due to oil leaks cause by case fretting. I am guessing a redesign of major components was required to address this sort of issue.

I put little faith in published TBOs on new engine designs, quite meaningless until at least a couple dozen examples make it there without attention. The Lycoming TIO-540-AE2A was a prime example of a certified engine consistently falling well short of TBO as was the Thielert aero diesel. Only time will tell if the problems have been licked and 2400 hours is a reasonable number. If so, the engine would be very useful in Europe and Africa where avgas is scare and/ or outrageously priced.
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Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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