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  #321  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:39 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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32 pages later and I still don't see the value in an RV-14 over an RV-7. Mind you, I still don't see the value in the -9 over the -7 either. The -7 over the -6 I can see as incremental, but the -14 seems excessive. All have only minor performance differences and marginally different flight characteristics... But vastly larger differences to your bottom line.

The -14 seems to be solely a way to get the larger demographic into the air... I don't understand it otherwise.

I guess it's the untapped market, as Vern said earlier. The market for ICAO-sized people is saturated with all of us here on VAF, so they have to expand into a (ahem) larger market.
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  #322  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:43 PM
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lostpilot28 lostpilot28 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
32 pages later and I still don't see the value in an RV-14 over an RV-7. Mind you, I still don't see the value in the -9 over the -7 either. The -7 over the -6 I can see as incremental, but the -14 seems excessive. All have only minor performance differences and marginally different flight characteristics... But vastly larger differences to your bottom line.

The -14 seems to be solely a way to get the larger demographic into the air... I don't understand it otherwise.

I guess it's the untapped market, as Vern said earlier. The market for ICAO-sized people is saturated with all of us here on VAF, so they have to expand into a (ahem) larger market.
I agree with you, Rob. A slightly roomier cockpit would be nice, but that's the only real difference I can see with the -14. If I were a big guy then maybe it'd have more of a value.
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  #323  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:51 PM
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ColoCardinal ColoCardinal is offline
 
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I think that Tyler nailed it. The most time consuming part of the build is definately things like hooking up the fuel lines, engine controls and the like. There are so many variations on engine / prop / fuel systems that there is little help to be had for some things. Guess it's the "experimental" part!
There's a lot of room for improvment in this area and I'm glad that Van's has addressed that in the newer kits. A guy can still "experiment" to his / her hearts content.
I'm very fortunate in that my wife enjoys flying. We've flown our Cardinal as far north as to the Arctic Circle and as far south as Key West. One thing that the 2 seat RVs are poor at is load capacity. Two FAA adults, full fuel and you have room for maybe 50 lbs of luggage. Eat too much steak while on vacation and you have to leave your shoes behind.
The 14 will fill the hole between the 10 and the 7 & 8 very nicely. It's a much better choice for a cross country machine for two people than any of the others in my opinion.
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  #324  
Old 07-24-2012, 06:21 PM
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lostpilot28 lostpilot28 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoCardinal View Post
I'm very fortunate in that my wife enjoys flying. We've flown our Cardinal as far north as to the Arctic Circle and as far south as Key West. One thing that the 2 seat RVs are poor at is load capacity. Two FAA adults, full fuel and you have room for maybe 50 lbs of luggage. Eat too much steak while on vacation and you have to leave your shoes behind.
My RV-7A is 1093 empty.
me and any other FAA adult is 360 lbs (I'm 190).
Full fuel is 252 lbs.
Full baggage is 100 lbs.

My math says that totals 1805. Or were you referring to the -6?
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  #325  
Old 07-24-2012, 06:56 PM
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Chino Tom Chino Tom is offline
 
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Default Baffle kit

Heck after installing 2 baffle kits on my -6 and then my -8A, the new
Baffle kit on the -14A alone would make me choose this kit over the others
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  #326  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:00 PM
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ColoCardinal ColoCardinal is offline
 
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Your's is near the bottom end of what Van's cites (1077 - 1130) for empty weight and I commend you for that. You are better off than most in that regard. It doesn't however dimish the point I'm trying to make. Add a minimal tool kit, a small survival kit and the clothes you're wearing and even you won't be carrying 100 lbs.
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  #327  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:00 PM
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Jamie Jamie is offline
 
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It seems to me to be a very simple thought process from Van's point-of-view: The RV-12 is drastically easier to build than the other RV models (even without considering pulled vs. solid rivets), so take some of those features and build an EAB using the tricks they learned with the -12 and incorporate things that builders have been looking for -- namely -- more room and a bigger engine. I think we'll see completion times of the RV-14 to be quite a bit faster than all of the other kits with the exception of the 12.

I remember very well how people scratched their heads when Van's announced the -9, but as of today 755 -9/-9As are flying and countless other kits have been sold.

I wouldn't doubt Van. He's proven himself to be very adept at judging his market.

I can certainly see the appeal of the -14 -- it's purpose is to eliminate a lot of the head-scratching that goes on in the "final 90%" of the project, as well as to eliminate all of the little odds-and-ends that consume tha majority of a builder's time.
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  #328  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:25 PM
fmiddleton fmiddleton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlittle View Post
I'd like to build an RV, but...
---snip---

I probably have overlooked a bunch of benefits, but I think this aircraft will have an appeal well beyond the zealots that habituate the VAF forum.
+1 on all of this. I think it's more about making it easier to build and get into, *maybe* reducing the experimental component to get people flying quickly. It's less about cannibalizing sales of the other models as attracting new people into the fold.
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  #329  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:37 PM
fstringham7a fstringham7a is offline
 
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Default RE: TIME TO .....

Ok guys and gals I will be the test. It took me 4 years 10 months and 4 days to build my 7A in the third bay of my three car garage. I will build the 14 in the same spot with the same tools with the same skill levels with the same folks that helped me with the 7A and we will see if one can really build the 14 faster. Now the catch. I NEED A SPONSORS TO BANK ROLL THE PROJECT AND A SUGAR DADDY TO BUY MY 7A AND LET ME FLY IT WHILE I BUILD THE 14.

No takers.......I thought so.

Now I believe that many 14's will be built by many varied and skilled Experimentors. I have no doubt that multiple RV builders, first timers, and pro builders will all throw there $$$$$$ into the project and will in the end have the machine they want for the mission they invision. I look forward to the day when RV14 #2 is shown on the Vans Hobbs.

Now back to the uplifting give and take on the value of the RV14
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  #330  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:40 PM
Zero4Zulu Zero4Zulu is offline
 
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Location: Scio,Oregon
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Default Van's company evolving

One thing for sure, is that the RV14 demonstrates how Van's company has evolved.
They have used CAD for a while at Van's but it appears they have stepped up the quality of the CAD, the design process and all that is involved in bringing a new model to market.
I think this plane is sort of a stepping stone to bringing more designs forward more easily and cleanly. In other words, it looks like the company is being run more like a modern high tech. company.

They will probably need more square footage if the economy ever gets better.

I think it's a beautiful traveling plane. Can't wait to see it at the Homecoming in August.


Steve
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