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  #1  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:37 AM
Marius Marius is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 5
Default RV-12 general questions

Greetings,
I'm trying to decide what airplane to build, between RV-9 and RV-12. I am a 1-year old private pilot, approx. 130 hrs total time, currently working on my instrument rating (mostly for tax purposes and educational value, not really planning to do IFR flying afterwards). I am an aeronautical engineer but I've never driven a single rivet in an aircraft structure before, my specialty is GNC (guidance, navigation and control).

I went to Van's and got a demo flight in the RV-9A, I'm planning to go back in a few weeks for another demo flight in the RV-12. For now, I have a couple of questions for the RV-12 builders/pilots, in no particular order:

1. I understand the plane can be certified either as E-LSA or as EAB. With EAB you get the freedom to pick your avionics and design the panel, which to me is a plus. Is there any advantage in certifying the plane as E-LSA instead (other than the ease of building using the standard equipment provided in the kits) ?

2. The Rotax engine runs on mogas, as I understand it. I'm not sure how easy it is to find this type of fuel at airports, the FBO at my home airport certainly doesn't provide mogas. I guess I can probably get by at home, hauling fuel from Costco in canisters, but how do you get fuel for your airplane when you're away on a cross-country trip ?

3. Has anyone considered to or installed in their experimental RV-12 the fuel-injected Rotax engine (912iS I believe it's called) ?

4. If you certify your RV-12 as E-LSA, you certainly have to use the standard equipment specified by Van's. Does this apply to everything on the plane, where exactly is the line drawn ? Particularly, on the avionics, can you add more stuff such as another EFIS on the copilot side, a second nav/com radio, in addition to the standard equipment ?

5. Somewhat related to previous question, does the standard audio panel support a music player or XM radio input ? If not, can it legally be swapped for a fancier audio panel that has such functions ?

Thanks,
Marius
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:43 AM
PCHunt PCHunt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius View Post
............... I am a 1-year old private pilot, approx. 130 hrs total time, currently working on my instrument rating..........
Thanks,
Marius
Wow, the pilots get younger and younger every year!!
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:52 AM
Marius Marius is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 5
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LOL PCHunt, good one. A few more questions:

6. Does the folding bike that Vans sells fit in the baggage compartment next to the fuel tank ?

7. I understand the flaps are not very effective in slowing the aircraft down on approach. How well can the aircraft be slipped using the rudder for bleeding off the excess energy ?

Thanks,
Marius
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2012, 02:29 AM
MLock MLock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 296
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Marius,

Give me a call. I can explain these issues with you much easier than typing. Everything you have asked is pretty typical of what I address at every fly in I attend with our blue RV-12.

I can be reached at 240-427-8847.
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President Van's Aircraft
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:21 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius View Post
Greetings,


1. I understand the plane can be certified either as E-LSA or as EAB. With EAB you get the freedom to pick your avionics and design the panel, which to me is a plus. Is there any advantage in certifying the plane as E-LSA instead (other than the ease of building using the standard equipment provided in the kits) ?
Primary advantage here for E-LSA is in resale. The "next" owner can qualify for the repairman certificate allowing him/her to perform the annual condition inspection. Also, E-LSA gets you a 5 hr. phase I test period. E-AB will be 40 hrs.

2. The Rotax engine runs on mogas, as I understand it. I'm not sure how easy it is to find this type of fuel at airports, the FBO at my home airport certainly doesn't provide mogas. I guess I can probably get by at home, hauling fuel from Costco in canisters, but how do you get fuel for your airplane when you're away on a cross-country trip ?
The Rotax will run fine on 100LL. It doesn't like the lead and you will need to change oil twice as often.

3. Has anyone considered to or installed in their experimental RV-12 the fuel-injected Rotax engine (912iS I believe it's called) ?

4. If you certify your RV-12 as E-LSA, you certainly have to use the standard equipment specified by Van's. Does this apply to everything on the plane, where exactly is the line drawn ? Particularly, on the avionics, can you add more stuff such as another EFIS on the copilot side, a second nav/com radio, in addition to the standard equipment ?
Only option is paint. Any other changes must be approved by Vans in writing. Immediately after certification, you may make any changes you wish.

5. Somewhat related to previous question, does the standard audio panel support a music player or XM radio input ? If not, can it legally be swapped for a fancier audio panel that has such functions ?

Thanks,
Marius
See above entries.
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EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>

Last edited by Mel : 07-16-2012 at 07:48 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2012, 08:05 AM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
Posts: 3,070
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I would choose the RV-9A for cross country trips. It will go a little faster, carry a little more baggage, and being a little heavier, it will not get tossed around quite as much. And it can land and takeoff in a little less distance.
The same type of fuel can be used in either plane (if the RV-9 fuel system is alcohol compatible). But the RV-9 will use more fuel (if flown faster). The total cost to build either plane will be about the same.
The RV-12 can be flown without a medical. But that might not matter to a pilot as young as you are. LOL Hopefully by the time you finish your RV-9, the rules will have changed to allow it to be flown without a medical too.
Joe Gores
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2012, 08:24 AM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,783
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There are some Van's options. They are:
Exterior nav-strobe-landing lights or not.
Full interior kit or basic interior.
Autopilot or not. (The autopilot function is software contained in the Dynon unit. To function, it needs two servos and some linkages that Van's sells as an optional subkit.)
Wheel pants or not.
To see mods people have made, look at the sticky thread at the top of the main page of this forum. There are not very many. Adding a second EFIS would not be difficult at all after certification. There are issues with power budget but there are EAB dual-Skyview versions flying without a problem and the CTLS has an even more power-hungry setup that uses the standard Rotax power (no aux power on it.)
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:51 AM
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JoeM JoeM is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Perryville, MD
Posts: 93
Default RV-12

I am also in the decision phase of building. Of all the choices I am considering I am leaning towards the RV-12 as it seems to be a good choice for an inexperienced first time builder. I would like build as an E-AB as I would like design my own panel and also consider the UL power option, but may just stick to the plans for ease of construction. I am still a year or 2 from starting so am very open to all of the opinions out there. Also waiting to see what the RV-14 is?.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:55 AM
MLock MLock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 296
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Joe,

Perryville, Md. I have our blue RV-12 at St. Mary's Airport, right next to Pax River NAS. You gotta come down and let me give you a demo in the 12. Give me a call at 240-427-8847 or email me at mitchl@vansaircraft.com right after Oshkosh.
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:39 AM
fmiddleton fmiddleton is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius View Post
3. Has anyone considered to or installed in their experimental RV-12 the fuel-injected Rotax engine (912iS I believe it's called) ?
There was a thread earlier this year on this topic (the day the engine was announced: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ht=rotax+912iS), and Vans posted on the topic on their FB page (http://www.facebook.com/notes/vans-a...81492068527838). The bottom line was that it would take some significant redesign work on the cowling to make the new engine fit, and part of Vans concern was the increased weight of the engine (~13 lbs) and its impact on the aircraft in terms of weight and c.g.
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Last edited by fmiddleton : 07-16-2012 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Added link to VAF thread
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