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  #1  
Old 07-10-2012, 11:45 PM
ArVeeNiner's Avatar
ArVeeNiner ArVeeNiner is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,125
Default What is your full flap go around technique?

So, I've had to do a couple of full flap go arounds in the 20 hours of flying my plane. My brain is still calibrated for those draggy planes of the past so during a go around, I apply full power, level off, suck up the flaps, then climb As we have all discovered, these planes accelerate rather quickly and it's easy to exceed the flap extension speed before the flaps are completely retracted.

So, what is a good full flap go around procedure? Perhaps partial power then raise flaps, then full power?
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:17 AM
mcattell mcattell is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Forest Grove, OR
Posts: 239
Default

The flaps on my RV-9A are set to retract fully at a touch of a button with my flap control system. I apply full power and press the button. No big deal for an RV to quickly retract the flaps fully and no big sink like in a Cessna. I was told this when I first started flying my RV and didn't believe it either. So at first I experimented at altitude and sure enough.
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Flying RV-9A N962MC
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:40 AM
PCHunt PCHunt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
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Default Go around Technique

Apply full power for go-around.
Raise nose as necessary to keep airspeed below flap limit speed.
Accept, and be grateful for, the superior climb rate.
After flaps are retracted, lower nose to desired airspeed.
Do not exceed 200 kts indicated beneath Class B airspace.

(Airspeed is controlled by pitch attitude, not power.) ...........There now, that oughta start a never-ending debate!
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2012, 01:26 AM
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John Clark John Clark is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCHunt View Post
(Airspeed is controlled by pitch attitude, not power.) ...........There now, that oughta start a never-ending debate!
True most of the time, except perhaps on an ILS, then it becomes pitch to the glideslope, and throttle for airspeed.

Just thought I'd help start the debate

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2012, 02:10 AM
roee roee is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Diego, CA, U.S.A.
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Default Pitch for Vy

To reinforce Pete's point, I think, the key element is pitch for the desired airspeed. What I generally do (not yet in an RV, but should apply just the same) is this: Not "full power, level off, raise the flaps, climb", but rather "full power, pitch for Vy, raise the flaps, continue to pitch for Vy". That's the immediate go-around. Then, sometime after that, you can adjust pitch for cruise climb when appropriate, depending on terrain, etc.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2012, 03:07 AM
PCHunt PCHunt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
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Default Respectfully disagree

John, may I respectfully disagree: When on an ILS, in the good ole days flying my Boeing XXX, or my Piper Warrior, I would always trim for airspeed, and vary the throttle to maintain glideslope.

I think it is my Navy training for carrier landings that taught me that. And many of my cockpit-mates commented on how closely I stayed to the appropriate airspeed on final.

You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mah-toe.

Whatever works. In reality, it is the proper combination of pitch, or angle-of-attack, and power that makes the plane perform as the pilot wishes.

With the exception of cruise flight, where the power is fixed, I prefer to "pitch for airspeed."

And pitch is more powerful: If you and I fly in any powered airplane, and I control the pitch with you controlling the throttle, I can maintain any given airspeed, and you can't change the airspeed with the throttle.

And then there's gliders. How do you control the airspeed in a glider?

Anyway, just having fun with an old never-ending-debate.





Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
True most of the time, except perhaps on an ILS, then it becomes pitch to the glideslope, and throttle for airspeed.

Just thought I'd help start the debate

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2012, 03:07 AM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,167
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There is no need to level off on the go around. Once you go around you want to start climbing ASAP. You will have no problem in a RV retracting the flaps while climbing. Attempting to level the aircraft off could easily result in a decent if you get some other distraction which could be a very bad thing. The level off is what is also leading to your flap overspeed issue.

George
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2012, 04:46 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Default Easy-peasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCHunt View Post
And then there's gliders. How do you control the airspeed in a glider?

.
Uphill goes slower and downhill you're faster....from my very first flying lesson.

Best,
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RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2012, 05:30 AM
terrykohler terrykohler is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,010
Default You're Not Alone on the Go-Arounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArVeeNiner View Post
So, I've had to do a couple of full flap go arounds in the 20 hours of flying my plane. My brain is still calibrated for those draggy planes of the past so during a go around, I apply full power, level off, suck up the flaps, then climb As we have all discovered, these planes accelerate rather quickly and it's easy to exceed the flap extension speed before the flaps are completely retracted.

So, what is a good full flap go around procedure? Perhaps partial power then raise flaps, then full power?
Just after I finished my 9A, my first couple of attempts at a short field resulted in go-Arounds. Extra speed on an approach with a FP 9 is not a good thing. Loaded to gross, you shouldn't be over 65kts (I use 60) on a normal approach. For short field (again at gross), I use 55. You'll need to work out your own numbers, but they shouldn't be substantially different.
The technique you describe for go-around is good. Your first pitch should be to Vx. Once you've cleared obstacles, pitch to Vy. Next time you practice, take a look at your attitude at both of these speeds. Depending on your height and seating position, you will see where the horizon is in relation to your glare shield at full power. With a little practice, you should be able to hold these speeds without having to bring your eyes back and forth to the AS indicator.
As far as flap retraction, count how many seconds it takes for full retract. Use half this value for the initial retract, and complete retraction after you've established Vy.

John Clark:
This is the first time I find myself on the other side of the fence with you. I feel like I did when I first learned that Santa Claus wasn't real (just kidding, John).
In any event, I find low time instrument pilots tend to chase the glide slope with the stick. The approaches look like sine waves, sometimes with increasing amplitude. Having them focus on power to track the GS really smoothes things out and seems (at least to me) to shorten the learning cycle. Personally, I started out on the other side but became a true believer about half way thru my flying life.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2012, 06:05 AM
Geeman Geeman is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Novato, CA KDVO
Posts: 377
Default Go arounds

I am new to flying the RV-6....last weekend. I came from having about 300 hours in a 172. Landing a C172 is obviously a piece of cake and I can count on one hand the number of times I had to do a go around due to a botched landing. Well I now have about 8 hours in the RV-6 and I got really really good at go arounds. I did more the first day than I did in three years in the Cessna. During a go around I applied full power and pitched up for airspeed. As I established a good climb I would start raising the flaps, never had a problem exceeding flab speed. I am happy to say, last night I flew solo and practiced a few more landings...no go arounds...no big bounces. I am getting the hang of it. These planes are awesome. Good luck. It is a blast...isn't it?
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