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06-07-2012, 10:00 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Just got this in an email yesterday, thought it was good timing for posting here.
https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/494013370
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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06-07-2012, 10:19 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S
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Ben knows his stuff and puts it to use as a member of the current US Advanced aerobatic team. Should be a good webinar.
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06-08-2012, 12:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spokane, Wa (KSFF) & the 'stan'
Posts: 72
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180 deg bank= inverted
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSwezey
Is that like somebody doing a 360 to turn around and go in the opposite direction?
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It was someone who apparently was caught in wake turbulence vortices and claimed it caused him to roll all the way over (inverted) b/c the wake was so strong (he was out of position). I argue to continue the roll to recover if the aircraft is already inverted rather than fight the angular momentum and wake vortex as well.
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06-08-2012, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 358
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The key to surviving a botched roll close to the ground is getting the nose above the horizon. That means stopping what you are doing and pushing the stick or rudder, whatever it takes, (and what it takes is a hard control input that is very uncomfortable,) to put some air under the nose. In a non-inverted airplane, this means the engine quits... but there is no advantage to having the engine running when you hit the ground upside down....
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06-08-2012, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B25Flyer
... but there is no advantage to having the engine running when you hit the ground upside down....
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Now that is some advice you can take to the bank! ^_^
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020
"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne
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06-09-2012, 04:59 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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Nope
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVZoomie
It was someone who apparently was caught in wake turbulence vortices and claimed it caused him to roll all the way over (inverted) b/c the wake was so strong (he was out of position). I argue to continue the roll to recover if the aircraft is already inverted rather than fight the angular momentum and wake vortex as well.
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I'm with Doug R on this one! If the airplane was rolled inverted, the nose would already be pointed further downhill than before the half roll. Continuing the roll will probably result in a near 45 deg impact!
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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06-09-2012, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mpumalanga, South Africa
Posts: 1,065
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There seems to have been a bit of thread drift here.
Looking at the original incident, there seems little doubt that it was not a spin but a spiral dive. The recovery from a high speed, nose low departure is to close the throttle, un-load, roll to the nearest horizon and pull to level.
Having said that, I agree that in some specialist aerobatic aircraft, you may be able to push your way out of it but the situations where that would help are minimal - if you can roll, then the postiive g available is typically twice the negative g.
I refer back to my original comments some pages ago. Whilst I commend the honesty in reporting this incident, if you don't know the difference between a spin and a spiral dive, then you didn't ought to be flight testing an aeroplane.
Edit: The roll should be unloaded
__________________
Paul
Mercy Air, White River FAWV
RV-10 ZU-IIZ - "Zeus"
Building Bearhawk Bravo - RV-18 not available
2019 Donation Made
Last edited by paul330 : 06-09-2012 at 05:48 PM.
Reason: added "un-load"
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06-09-2012, 07:40 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Port St Lucie, FL
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith
I'm with Doug R on this one! If the airplane was rolled inverted, the nose would already be pointed further downhill than before the half roll. Continuing the roll will probably result in a near 45 deg impact!
Best,
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I agree, but just to be clear, the best path would both push the nose up and continue the roll at the same time, but I assume that's what you and Doug both mean. I can't honestly say for sure I would automatically continue the roll, my first instinct would probably be to try to stop it. I guess it would depend on how fast I was rolled inverted. If I was rolled to the left, my guess is I would be more likely to continue the roll, as that is the way most competition pilots prefer to roll. I do I know I would push the nose up without thinking about it, I have done so many competition style rolls (as opposed to barrel rolls) it's automatic. The great thing about having aerobatic experience is, especially at low altitudes you don't want to have to think to much about the proper use of the controls, you need to just do it!
Sorry about the thread drift!
__________________
Damon Wack
RV-7 in progress
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06-09-2012, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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Quote:
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you don't want to have to think to much about the proper use of the controls, you need to just do it!
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Yah, it should just be point and shoot. If you have to actually think about the necessary recovery steps that could be involved with a maneuver, then you should not go near said maneuver solo until its automatic. That's what keeps a pothole from becoming a crater.
__________________
Actual repeat offender.
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06-18-2012, 01:13 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 211
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Because of a very specific, personal request by another forum member, I've agreed to post an update on my test progress.
Since my last post, I have had a discussion with Van's, completed another inspection of the plane, plus had an inspection of the airplane by two other sets of eyes (an IA and a mechanic together) just to be sure. No signs of any damage was found, and so I got back on the horse and went flying. I have completed all of my formal test program objectives, starting right where I left off in the stall and cg testing, and am now within 1 hour of completing my 40 hours of Phase 1 testing. No issues have been uncovered with the plane.
I'm not sure I will continue on with this forum so please do not reply to this post.
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