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05-28-2012, 10:27 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: AZ/MN
Posts: 376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
My smart alec reply was, "Hey, you need to clean the belly of that RJ, it sure is dirty!"
Since I had him in sight and could tell we would pass under him, I did not consider it a safety issue. Besides, at that point, starting to maneuver could have been the thing to cause an accident.
Out of curiousty, what would the rest of you do, if you were in the same situation?
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An RA requires an immediate and positive response to the commands given by the TCAS which are either a climb or descend maneuver. If I was in his position without an RA and did not have you in sight, I would have asked for a vector away. With 500' separation, you seeing me is not valid enough for me and the 280 bodies sitting behind me to continue on present course.
If I had been you in my RV-4 I would have maneuvered 20-30 degrees away from the RJ and not made the unprofessional remark.
As an aside, when departing on weekends out of Florida airports, I would brief my first officers to climb with the autopilot on (both heads looking out the window) and at near Vzf to 10,000'.
Last edited by springer : 05-28-2012 at 10:32 PM.
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05-28-2012, 10:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer
................If I had been you in my RV-4 I would have maneuvered 20-30 degrees away from the RJ and not made the unprofessional remark.
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With a sense of humor like that, I bet you were a barrel of laughs on layovers. 
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05-28-2012, 11:07 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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What is Vzf?
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05-28-2012, 11:13 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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ATCs job is to separate IFR aircraft from other IFR aircraft. After all, if you were below 10000' you aren't required to have a mode C, nor are you required to talk to ATC. Exception: in class B ATC will separate all aircraft. that's why VFR minimums go to "clear of clouds".
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05-29-2012, 04:45 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer
If I had been you in my RV-4 I would have maneuvered 20-30 degrees away from the RJ and not made the unprofessional remark.
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and since he wasn't being paid for flying, he isn't a professional pilot by definition, and therefore free to have some fun...
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05-29-2012, 04:57 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Freericksburg, VA
Posts: 624
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Interesting thread. I think the best course would have been for the RV-4 driver to simply reply, "Nxxxx, Traffic in sight". Then everyone (RJ crew, ATC) would know that the RV has not only the requirement but the ability to execute the expectation that, as a VFR flight, they would maintain visual separation. There is nothing that creates a more nagging feeling in an aircraft then to be advised of traffic and not be able to see it. Knowing that the other guy sees you alleviates that anxiety.
As for the snarky comment - I have no problem with that as long as some rapport had been established before it was made. Letting the RJ crew know they are seen would probably put them more in the mood to accept the good-natured josh.
We are all ambassadors for our individual segments of aviation and as such our interactions carry a lot of weight in creating, modifying, or reinforcing impressions individuals in other segments have our our respective niches in the aviation universe. I always try to sound as professional on the radio as possible such that the true professionals that hear my radio calls won't be able to tell that I'm a private sport pilot and think I've. And I find it can be done while still managing to interact with ATC and others in a fun way. IN the enroute phase on a non-busy frequency you might say one thing; congested one in busy terminal area the less said the better.
My two cents...
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05-29-2012, 05:13 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sydney, Aust.
Posts: 820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777
I am very surprised you didn't see the RJ do an evasive maneuver based on a "RA" (resolution advisory) on his TCAS. It's likely they actually got a visual on you at some point. They may have secretly been trying to get close look at that new Skyview in your sweet blue and white -9. I know of at least one RJ pilot that has a strange fetish for -9's with skyview.
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To get an RA, both aircraft need to be equipped with TCAS, not just Mode C. The regional would only ever have got a TA.
__________________
Once you have tasted flight you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return - Leonardo DaVinci
My Flickr gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35521362@N06/
RV-9A - Finished on 10th February 2016 after 4 years, 9 months and 19 days! The 1020th RV-9 flying.
First flight 26th March 2016. Essential specs 145KTAS @ 2400RPM, 8000', 24.2LPH, Initial RoC 1800FPM.
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05-29-2012, 05:50 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRviator
To get an RA, both aircraft need to be equipped with TCAS, not just Mode C. The regional would only ever have got a TA.
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This is incorrect. The RJ could have easily gotten an RA based upon the RV transponder information ONLY. The likely reason there was no RA in this case was because everyone was in level flight and the vertical separation was not diminishing enough to trigger the advisory.
Not sure why the RJ boys seemed so uptight but the "dirty belly" comment probably reminded them to relax. Traffic was called, the RV reported them in sight, and they probably saw the target on the fish finder the entire time.
__________________
My ATC opinion is NOT an official FAA recognized opinion, so any advice you get from me is ONLY my opinion.
Track my RV7A!!
Bought my flying -7A
Building an -8! (Fuse)
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05-29-2012, 06:02 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 1,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkatc
they probably saw the target on the fish finder the entire time.
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That's probably what gave them the willies. They both had their heads down watching the finder and not looking out the window.
500 feet crossing north of Atlanta in VFR seems to be the norm.
__________________
Sid Lambert
RV-7 Sold
RV-4 - Flying - O-320 Fixed Pitch - Red over Yellow
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05-29-2012, 06:21 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer
With 500' separation, you seeing me is not valid enough for me and the 280 bodies sitting behind me to continue on present course.
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I think about this every time ATC calls out airline traffic anywhere close to me. Its always easy for me to see him, but harder for him to see me. The other guy also has no real way of knowing whether I'm a skilled professional with eagle vision and decades of experience, or disoriented student pilot. Its actually rather impressive that things seem to work out, due in part to TCAS?
__________________
Alan Carroll
RV-8 N12AC
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