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  #11  
Old 05-12-2012, 06:51 PM
tim walter tim walter is offline
 
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Two weekends is a record for sure !
it took me longer that that.
but yes it's easy.
I found that the wings were one of the slower parts of my -12 build.
I spent a few weekends deburring the ribs, I could probably have done it quicker, but I like to take my time and do things right.
There's a lot of fiddly bits on the edges that take different sized files to get into all the little corners, I probably went over the top with my deburring, but I figured wings were kind of important during flight...
The ribs also need to be fluted straight, it's all trivial, but there's a LOT of ribs.
once that's done though, the wings to assemble, and that part was done in a weekend, really satisfying !.

I don't know the specifics of the airframe strength, but the factory SLSA is a certified (to ESTM? LSA standards) airplane.

All rivets on the -12 are aluminum, well, there's a few blind SS countersunk rivets on a couple of nut plates, but they are no trouble.
All the solid rivets are -AD (aluminum) rivets.
They are no trouble at all, you squeeze them with a 3" yoke, either a hand squeezer or a pneumatic squeezer if you happen to have one handy.
No rivet gun or bucking is required for the -12 at all.

keep the blue protective coating on the alclad while you work with it.
that avoids scratching.
but there's little to no actual work to be done on the parts, so you don't need to worry too much about it.
There's some 6061 for some AEX and tubing, but i've never buffed out any scratches, I do prime the 6061 parts though, as directed in the plans.
There's really very little of it.

The canopy needs to be trimmed AFAIK.
I haven't done that bit yet, but I don't think that is one of the hard bits, you just trim it with a dremel and a cutoff wheel.
AFAIK the only hard bit of making the canopy is fabricating the fiberglass skirt (unless you decide to buy a pre-built one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMorden View Post
Thanks for all the great information. Wings in two weekends? I was about to order my Sonex wings and figuring on 200 hours or more.

I think the last straw with the Sonex was when I looked at the nosewheel strut and saw that the fork only has one side drilled for the axle. I figured it was a factory mistake...nope, I have to drill ONE side of the fork. I mean...really?!?

So some more questions:

1). One of the things that attracted me to the Sonex is the strength of the airframe, rated at +6/-3g...not because I want to do a lot of aerobatics, more just for the extra margins. How strong is the RV-12 airframe? What are the weakest parts. Also, what is the Vne?

2) the Sonex has no solid rivets, except in the wing spars I have not done yet. I know the RV uses quite a few of them...how hard is working the solid rivets vs the blind rivets? Are the blind rivets aluminum or stainless steel (all the Sonex rivets are SS).

3) The Sonex uses 6061-T6 aluminum, whereas the RV uses 2024 alclad (I think). I'm used to sanding out scratches and nicks that happen inevitably from handling in the shop...how do you deal with this with alclad?

4) does the canopy come ready to install, or does it need trimming?

Thanks again for all the quick and helpful information!
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:46 PM
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videobobk videobobk is offline
 
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Maybe I shouldn't comment on how hard the RV-12 is to build, since I haven't built one. I just stood back and watched a bunch of high school kids do it. Okay, I did mentor and instruct some! I think we have bought one or two replacement parts.

There is deburring of the edges of the parts, and we did deburr most holes on one side. VERY little fabrication, and no jigging at all. Some match drilling, maybe 3% of the holes. Solid rivets are pretty easy, in fact I like them better than pulled, if they don't require countersinking. That is just me, YMMV.

I am watching the second high school group build now. They will make mistakes, I'm sure, but will learn to correct them, just like the first build group. It is easy to understand, and it is a great design. I don't think you can go wrong, and you have all the skills you need to really jump into an RV-12. Don't look back...

Bob

P.S. On the quality of the instructions: 90% of the questions the students asked me were answered, "Read the instructions." They aren't perfect, but they are very good. They are the best I have seen with any airplane.
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Last edited by videobobk : 05-12-2012 at 07:53 PM. Reason: addded P.S.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2012, 08:58 PM
fmiddleton fmiddleton is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alpharetta, GA
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Hey folks, I'm really happy to see this thread...I'm in the planning/dreaming stages right now and find myself going back and forth between the Sonex and RV12 (truth be told, I always find myself back on the RV for one reason or another). It's great to see all the comments backing up my thinking

Anyway, the big question for me is the instruction/builders manual. As I read through VAF I often see a page from the plans, but there aren't really any instructions on those. So what are the instructions like? I *really* wish Vans would sell a preview instruction/plans set for the -12.
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2012, 09:10 PM
DaveLS DaveLS is offline
 
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Location: Pensacola, FL & 2R4, Loveland, CO
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For examples of the plans go to the bottom of this link:

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices2.htm

I was able to purchase plan sections from Vans without a problem, but the above link will provide plenty of free pages and entire sections to download and study.

Also the RV-12's limits are +4, -2

Vne, 136 kts cas, can be found in the POH that also can be downloaded from the above link.
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Last edited by DaveLS : 05-12-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2012, 09:13 PM
MrMorden MrMorden is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmiddleton View Post
Hey folks, I'm really happy to see this thread...I'm in the planning/dreaming stages right now and find myself going back and forth between the Sonex and RV12 (truth be told, I always find myself back on the RV for one reason or another). It's great to see all the comments backing up my thinking

Anyway, the big question for me is the instruction/builders manual. As I read through VAF I often see a page from the plans, but there aren't really any instructions on those. So what are the instructions like? I *really* wish Vans would sell a preview instruction/plans set for the -12.
Let me tell you about the Sonex build manual: there is none. The plans are good, excellent, even fantastic (they were made by a Skunk Works engineer who worked on the F-117 plans). But there is no manual per se. The plans contain build orders on some pages, but in general you look at the plans and just build based on the pictures and descriptions.

This is a fine, efficient way to show an airplane build. But there have been many times I have scratched my head and said "should I drill this first, or after I attach this other part?". Granted, 90% of those questions are simply answered by studying the plans until you get the eureka moment. But sometimes you can't quite get it, make your best assumption, and get it wrong. Sometimes it's easy to correct, sometimes it's a trip to the Sonex web store for a new part.

As a novice builder I'd prefer a step by step manual.
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  #16  
Old 05-12-2012, 10:09 PM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
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Download those example plans from the links above. Every page and step in the plans is numbered and the plane can be built from following those exactly. There are a *very* few things that people have chosen to do out of order based on experience that are covered in the forum - like not putting in the rear window until almost the last thing and ditto for the 2 skins that frame it. Putting in the brakes with the fuselage tub still on its side. Really minor stuff like that - stuff you will find by reading the experienced builder's blogs before you start that section, and a couple of easy searches on this forum. For example there are about 3 or 4 documents here giving summary "what to watch for" detailed advice on each section of the plans. I was on a business trip after I went to OSH in 2010. Each night I read from the blogs I mentioned above. The level of detail and explanation made me really prepared - I knew I could handle everything in the kit because it was very straightforward from those that were ahead of me. I came back from that trip and placed the order. 18 months later I was done - but there were about 4 of those months "waiting for Skyview" - a problem that is now past us.
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  #17  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:03 PM
newamiga newamiga is offline
 
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Location: Barneveld, NY
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I can also attest to the ease of build the other guys here have been talking about. A couple hints.. one was already mentioned but I will second it.. for those of us who have never built a plane before the Homebuilt Help DVD's have been great. If for no other reason than to sanity check what I am reading in the plans and see someone actually do the steps in the plans they are valuable to me.

Second and this was something that Mitch from Vans told me when I test flew the -12 with him.. read ahead in the plans and make sure you follow the plans. If you think you have an idea of how to do something and it isn't consistent with the plans or something just looks obvious to you, there may very well be a reason why it isn't being done yet and reading ahead in the directions will help you out.

Carl
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  #18  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:49 PM
tim walter tim walter is offline
 
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+1 for the homebuilt help dads
they are great, they should be shipped with the kit !
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2012, 08:27 PM
Mike_ExpressCT Mike_ExpressCT is offline
 
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This is just my opinion, but to me it sounds like you've already made your decision. And that decision is a great one...obviously, you're going to have an excellent product with a -12 that will be much easier and quicker to build.

As far as I can see, the trade off will be that a Sonex is a stronger airframe (aerobatic) and cheaper to build. The RV-12 is a much more refined kit and probably more comfortable.

In the end, people love both. Look over a -12 kit then decide and get to work!
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2012, 09:12 PM
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videobobk videobobk is offline
 
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Perhaps I should have mentioned this in my original post, but Eagle's Nest thinks highly enough of the Homebuilt Help DVDs that we are including a set with every project. We believe that they will be a big help to the mentors, and the mentors can determine whether or not they show them to the builders. As an individual builder, I would use them. DO NOTE that they were done with the older avionics, and the wiring is our of date! We may work with HH to correct this, but it will take a while. Otherwise, they are great!
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