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  #91  
Old 04-29-2012, 12:39 AM
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Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
...Carry 4 people very fast...
I'm pretty sure it's a two-seat airplane.

Thanks, Bob K.
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  #92  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:45 AM
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The thing that interests me is that all of the alternatives to Lycoming engines, be they automotive conversions, or purpose-built aircraft engines, come in at about the same price as a comparable Lycoming. These are new designs with significant startup, R&D, and tooling costs, and they're able to sell them for the same ballpark price as an existing Lycoming.

A Lycoming that now has next to zero startup, R&D, or tooling costs. That makes me wonder what the long term, ongoing cost would be to produce these alternative engines. I agree with someone earlier who said that it shouldn't be much more than $5K. I recall a few years ago someone saying that a crated Renesis engine from Mazda was on the order of $8K... But they were having a hard time buying one as Mazda had been tipped off that the buyer wanted it for an aircraft... No work done to adapt for aircraft use, of course, but there's a 200HP engine for under $10K right there.
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  #93  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:08 AM
rrnixonjr rrnixonjr is offline
 
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This is an interesting discussion. I still believe it would cost more than $5000.00 without tort reform or regulation. As someone stated earlier, look at a used price and it will tell you what something is worth. My RV4 used is worth maybe $50,000? Is that what the materials in it cost?

The 0-320 is have is more than the sum of its internal parts, crankshaft, pistons, etc. It also has a carb which isn't cheap, a PMag and Slick magneto, the exhaust system costs quite a bit, and the intake. The engines are not too complicated but start adding up the parts cost. Maybe it is because of the limited manufacturing, but have you ever tried to rebuild a Porshe flat six? Talk about expensive. Building a performance 350 Chevy with aftermarket heads would cost more than $5000.00 and that's starting with a used motor. My friend who has an ultralight rebuilds his Rotax two stroke every five hundred hours or so and that costs close to 5 thousand. (It's also blown up in the air 3 times).

I will take some regulation and AD's to keep me safe. But with experimentals you can put an outboard motor in it if you can find a way to make it work but no one has an engine for $5000.00 or less. Heck, a 10 hp outboard costs almost $3000.00.
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  #94  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrnixonjr View Post
Building a performance 350 Chevy with aftermarket heads would cost more than $5000.00 and that's starting with a used motor.
I'll admit that a performance engine would cost more, but you can certainly start with a new one...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-89017548/

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  #95  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:58 PM
wolfpack21643 wolfpack21643 is offline
 
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I wouldnt call a 100hp (Rotax 912) or 160 hp Lycoming high performance as far as horse power and torque goes. When you talk about $10,000 car engines your talking about alot more HP then what is used in the avg RV world.

I have a friend who built a Factory Five kit car with a 500 HP Chevy crete motor. I think he paid around $14,000 for it ready to run with fuel injection and all. He has 40,000 miles on his car and it hasnt missed a beat yet. I can only guess what a fuel injected 500 HP Lycoming would cost

I think it all boils down to a combo of 4 things:

1) Number produced (R&D / Tooling cost)
2) Lawyers
3) Higher labor cost(I was into skateboarding in the 80's and a high end skateboard was $100 complete in 1987. I just bought my daughter a high end one last week that was $80 complete. That means that your getting better / newer technology at a negitive inflation rate which is amazing ) But then again skateboards are made in China along with most other stuff and if airplane engines are built in the US or Europe then the labor cost have to be alot higher.
4) Govt. Regulation (sometimes good, but when was the last time the Govt turned anything into an easier / cheaper thing)

I think that pretty much sums up the why part.
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  #96  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:29 AM
rrnixonjr rrnixonjr is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngoodman View Post
I'll admit that a performance engine would cost more, but you can certainly start with a new one...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-89017548/

John
True, but try to fit that in your RV, and ask why so few are put in RV10's or any other aircraft. Remember, we are talking about providing an aircraft engine for $5000.00. If you read the entire thread there is plenty of discussion of why it can't be done from a startup for so little.
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  #97  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:21 PM
JDanno JDanno is offline
 
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You CAN get an alt. Engine for $5000. But then you have to buy the PSRU for about $11k and then the radiator(s), plumbing, etc. You will have $20k spent before you know it. Been there, doing that. Sure do love that NASCAR sound when it fires up!
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  #98  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:18 AM
prporter prporter is offline
 
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Government intervention?
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