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  #1  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:00 AM
rmr rmr is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ormond Beach
Posts: 24
Default Electronic Ign Safety and Sport Aviation article

I am currently shopping for an engine for my RV-7A project. After reading through several posts here, I was close to a final configuration. Essentially an IO 360 with horizontal induction and dual p-mags. While reading the latest Sport Air magazine on the article regarding Amateur Built Safety, I read (p.34 second paragraph), "Almost half of the total aircraft involved in accidents (48 percent) had traditional engines and most of them probably had traditional magnetos. Yet almost twice as many accidents were caused by failures of electronic ignition versus those old fashioned magnetos."
Needless to say this has given me pause. My understanding is that Emagair has worked itself through some of the earlier problems and that the new P-mags are more robust and easy to install. I also recall Paul Dye mentioning his increased confidence in his decision to move to dual p-mags on his latest project; and while i understand there are many other systems out there beside P-mags, are those flying with P-mags confident in their systems? Are most of you guys flying with dual systems, or have you gone with one a p-mag/one mag set up? Any bogeys to watch out for?
Vans sells an IO-360 m1b, but my understanding is that Lycoming voids they're warranty with the addition of electronic ignition. Its one of the reasons i was looking at one of the popular engine build shops advertised here. These statistics have caused me to reconsider and go back to square one. Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:28 AM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default Welcome to VAF!!!!

Richard, welcome to the good ship VAF

My opinion, the electronic ignition systems have gone through a lot of teething problems in the last few years, and are now pretty well proven items.

If I were going to be setting up a new engine, I would look very strongly at the Emag------I like the fact it has its own internal power generator.

Also, you might want to look at G3, which is a normal mag, but has an external trigger, and as I recall reverts to simple mag operation if the external box fails.

Lightspeed has an impressive track record.

Also, look at Ross Farnham's stuff, at Simple Digital Injection---He is a VAFer.

Lastly, Barrett Perf Engines are working on an ignition system that should be pretty good.

There are others, but my memory is stalled a bit right now.

Good luck, and again, welcome.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."

Last edited by Mike S : 04-09-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2012, 10:22 AM
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videobobk videobobk is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Scipio, in Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,779
Default

Welcome! You've come to the right place.

I go along with Mike here. The only E-ignition I have personal experience is E-Mag/P-Mag, and I know there were problems early on. It was new technology. The key word here is "was." I sent mine in several times for updates, but haven't needed updating in probably three years. They really perform, and I have lots of faith in them. I have had regular mags fail two times in my flying career (thankfully on the ground) and wouldn't trade for anything. It is nice to be cautious, and you should find out all the facts. I have a feeling the whole story isn't in the article; updated/old style, early version/current version, etc.

We are pilots--we take risks. Just take as few as possible. I do not believe a P-Mag adds to the risk in any way. Just my opinion...

Bob
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  #4  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:08 AM
F1R F1R is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ____
Posts: 829
Default CHECK ignition section

If you look furter down on the main page , you will find a firewall forward section and within that group an Electronic Ignition section.

If man made it, then it will quit at some point. The trick is to have only one fail while the second system brings you home.

With any system , quality of install and proper maintenance will be what keeps the sparks alive.

Good Luck!
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:18 AM
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RONSIM RONSIM is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Largo, FL
Posts: 1,029
Default It is my understanding

that most of the benefit for the e-ignition comes from installing the first unit (80%), so I prefer one mag, one e-ignition. Glad I did it, at least once! (e-side failed)
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  #6  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:24 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Over 360 hours on dual P-mags and love the setup. Simple, reliable, etc.

As stated above, they HAD issues early on but have solved them.

Besides having an internal power source, should your ship's electrical system fail, they don't require a 500 hour overhaul like a traditional magneto.

Feel free to drop me a note at bill (at) repucci.com, if you have any questions regarding their installation or operation.

Regarding the Lycoming engine, there are other engine options out there such as Superior or ECi and they will save you money.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
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www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #7  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:31 AM
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jjconstant jjconstant is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oakland CA
Posts: 771
Default Ignition failures

Ive had both certified (LASAR) and experimental (PMag) fail. I agree that anything can fail, certified or not, and as pilots it's our responsibility to be prepared to deal with the failures. The differences in my failures were that the LASAR failed in flight, was a catastrophic mechanical failure (sheared main shaft!), and the customer support was the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and saying "la la la la la ". EMag air on the other hand explained their system and operating philosophy to me, walked me through the troubleshooting, verified the problem required them to have the unit and fixed it quickly. As a side note, they have their system diagnostics designed such that if the unit goes out of tolerance in flight you still get home but it won't pass the start up tolerances test when you try to start it up for the next flight. Very safe. As you may have guessed, I never considered putting the LASAR back in my plane and never considered NOT putting the PMags back in. I'm very happy and confident in them.

All Best

Jeremy Constant
RV 7A 150hrs.
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  #8  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:42 AM
rmr rmr is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ormond Beach
Posts: 24
Default

Thank you all for your replies. Your personal experiences are very comforting as I move forward with my decisions. First hand experience is certainly one of the many values of this forum. Sounds like dual P-mags and several eyeballs on my install!
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  #9  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:44 AM
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Flybuddy2 Flybuddy2 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 370
Default

Regular mags are dirt simple and reliable. I've had mag failures but never 2 at the same time. On the other hand I'm aware of 3 major failures (neighbors) with electronic systems. I understand people saying that the older systems had teething pains and that was in the past BUT will someone be saying that about your system a few years down the road? The referenced article dealt with accidents from 2006 thru 2010, not exactly ancient history.
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  #10  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:04 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybuddy2 View Post
Regular mags are dirt simple and reliable. I've had mag failures but never 2 at the same time...
That's one reason I like the P-mags so well, they are complete independent of one another. That and they are simple to install with very few parts, wires, etc. required.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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