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03-29-2012, 02:57 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riobison
From what I have seen on the Lycoming the oil will be pumped to the rockers, run down the push rod to the lifters to pump up the hydraulic lifters and some of this will spill over onto the cam lobes enough to coat it again.
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No...oil is pumped via galleries to the lifter, then moves via the pushrod bore to the rockers.
Quote:
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Does anyone know for sure that the oil that pumps up the lifter does not ever reach the cam lobe on the Lycoming?
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Leakage between the lifter body and the case bore can't directly reach the cam lobe....it's on the other side of the mushroom.
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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03-29-2012, 03:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 25
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If you had to revive a long dormant Lycoming, would it be worthwhile to put new oil in, and use a sump pre-heater to warm the oil before the first start?
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03-29-2012, 09:53 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 22
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BD4 guy- I recently revived a long dormant Lycoming. I pulled top spark plugs and borescoped them to look for corrosion, then put a few ounces of marvel mystery oil in each with mags/master off and battery removed. Pulled prop through by hand about 50 times, let it sit overnight and did it some more.
On second day I changed oil and replaced battery. It started on about the fourth try after a few shots of primer. Compressions were about 65 on all four cylinders.
You will probably want to change the oil again very quickly and cut open filter to look for metal,etc. After my second oil change and it having been run a few times, the compression up to 73 on all four cylinders, should creep up a bit more with use hopefully.
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03-30-2012, 08:20 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 29
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I'm backing up Dan Horton
The way I see it and I built up my IO-360 from Superior Air Parts is that the "cam lobes" and lifters(followers) that actually contact the cam lobes get their primary lubrication from oil splash during engine operation. Oil slinging around inside crankcase during running if you will. Just turning prop by hand is not going to do this. Plus it's thicker oil. The cam shaft itself is lubricated by I think 4 bearing journals that get their lube from oil gallery's in the case, but that's not gonna get over to the cam lobes and lifters the way you want it too. So, even like Mel said. Don't bother turning over unless your gonna fly it. Some day I might try this Cam Guard stuff myself, but I do run my engine at least a couple times a month in Central Florida. Good Luck and my flame suit is on if somebody begs to differ.
Jeff Liebman
RV-8. 370TT
Airglades Airport, FL
P.S. My first post ever and I've been lurking here since the beginning I think. What took me so long?
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03-30-2012, 08:42 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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As has been pointed out, the primary cam lobe lubrication method is from oil flung off the big end of the rods. Some engines have a little notch which directs oil out of the rod journal, but it is common wisdom that there is enough leakage due to endplay that this "squirter notch" is not required.
Any time you turn an engine slowly, you not only DON'T have a supply of oil to the most critical wear area of the camshaft (lobe/lifter interface), it is also slow enough that you don't get the benefit of the hydrodynamic wedge which keeps the metal from making actual contact. At rest you have the valve spring pressure forcing the lobe and lifter into hard contact; turning the assembly just wipes the residual oil right off.
It has been said that those few seconds grinding away on the starter do more damage than several hundred hours of running time. Conversely, if you used a Lycoming continuously (like to run a generator or water pump), it would run tens of thousands of hours before needing overhaul. Starting is very hard on an engine
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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03-30-2012, 09:10 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 45G, Brighton, MI
Posts: 1,867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder
It has been said that those few seconds grinding away on the starter do more damage than several hundred hours of running time. Conversely, if you used a Lycoming continuously (like to run a generator or water pump), it would run tens of thousands of hours before needing overhaul. Starting is very hard on an engine
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Amen! The worst thing you can do to an engine wear-wise is to start it. The second worst thing is to shut it down...
Anytime my engine has not been run for more than a couple of months, I pre-oil it with a pressure pot.
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Miles (VAF# 1238, Paid up as of 2018)
RV-7 TU 904KM (reserved)
Wings Fitted and Finish Kit on site
Construction Log
Picasa: Empennage Album, Wings Album, Fuselage Album
1955 Cessna 170B flying since 1982
'To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.' -Unk.
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03-31-2012, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oliver BC & Red Deer Alberta Canada
Posts: 350
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Well it appears that I?m the only one doing this and I have been doing it for over 32 yrs on all of the planes that I have had and I have never touch any of the cam?s nor the lifters.
The last one being the Cardinal with 37 yrs and just over a 1000 hrs on the engine. Neither the cam nor the lifters have been touched.
Maybe I have been lucky or maybe it is my technique but it has worked for me so I will continue my practice.
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03-31-2012, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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I live in a dry climate but use Camguard and an engine dryer system. I have no way to document that this is better than doing nothing, but the cost is trivial and logically is a good thing to do.
I also use an oil sump heater for temps below about 50 deg F.
Last edited by Ron Lee : 03-31-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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03-31-2012, 09:22 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hampshire, IL
Posts: 276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riobison
Well it appears that I?m the only one doing this and I have been doing it for over 32 yrs on all of the planes that I have had and I have never touch any of the cam?s nor the lifters.
The last one being the Cardinal with 37 yrs and just over a 1000 hrs on the engine. Neither the cam nor the lifters have been touched.
Maybe I have been lucky or maybe it is my technique but it has worked for me so I will continue my practice.
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I find your technique interesting can you also tell me have these aircraft been in heated or non heated hangars ?
__________________
Ed Martin
Bluskydtl
RV7
DKB
Donations 1/19 & 6/19
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03-31-2012, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In New Braunfels, ist das Leben schön!
Posts: 871
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Fly The Engine
One of the books in Van's bookstore and also recommended by one of my mentors is "Fly The Engine" by Kas Thomas.
Page 24 starts with "My own personal policy is to rotate the propeller by hand prior to the first flight of the day, or any time the engine is cold." Later on the same page he states "Prop-turning is a somewhat controversial practice, at least as applied to modern flat-opposed engines."
As I don't have much experience with piston aircraft, I'm still in the information gathering phase and I appreciate threads like this. Better learn fast as my Aerosport 0-360 is due soon.
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Larry New
RV-7A - Built, flying 900+ hrs
RV-10 - Built, flying 2.9 hrs
??? - RV-12, Subsonex
48 States in 7 Days!
VAF Paid - Annual Autodraft
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