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03-25-2012, 05:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Barneveld, NY
Posts: 189
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Does anyone know if LEAF may be selling the new model pump on site at SnF?
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Private Pilot
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03-25-2012, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, Fort Worth
Posts: 1,237
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Customer Service 101!
First I would say yes, LEAF and Lockwood (whose shop is just down the road)should have Pumps at S&F. They did have them at OSH 2011. While you are there feel free to ask them how many New style pumps have failed as of their release. I will be asking them this question at OSH where both vendors will give Informational Rotax forms. By then they will have had the new pump out for 1 year. You have to ask the correct question to get the right answer.
It does bother me in regards to the customer service that Rotax provides in the USA, which is one of the largest markets in the world. The process to get a part returned for a warranty refund seems some what convoluted. With a price tag of $18500.00 you would think that they would bend over backwards to help you out. Rotax knows exactly how many parts and what kind are sold in the USA through computer tracking. Dealers in the USA have to order all their parts direct from Rotax through Kodiak Research Ltd. Nassau, Bahamas. So they know how many old pumps were sold in the USA as well as returned for warranty refunds. So replacing all the old pumps would be a drop in the bucket as compared to how many of their engines are sold here. It would have gone a great distance to further Safety. I have never seen at OSH an actual Rotax representative from Germany. IMHO the three Rotax dealers in the USA are very guarded about what they say about their product. Even on their web site in their forms section other than hosting the forms they don't answer direct questions when asked.  I do like their engine though. But just want a little more respect when it comes to my hard earned USA dollar. 
__________________
John
RV12 N1212K
Flying Since June 2010
1020 Hours as of 9/30/2017
Johnrv12@icloud.com
RV14 Wing, arrived and building at Rdog's new Hanger at 16X
S/N 140014
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03-25-2012, 07:56 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Scipio, in Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,779
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Finally something I don't have to worry about. We got our engine a couple weeks ago and hung it yesterday. I looked at my pictures, and it is the new style with seven screws. But what if the new design is defective? Hmmm, guess I still have to worry.
Seriously though, if I had the old style, could I change it out before the fly-off, or would I have to use what is sent to meet the E-LSA rules? I would think that would be a concern, but I may be off base here. Anyone sure?
Bob
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Bob Kelly, Scipio, Indiana
Tech Counselor
Founder, Eagle's Nest Projects
President, AviationNation, Inc
RV-9A N908BL, Flying
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03-26-2012, 04:40 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Boerne, TX
Posts: 228
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Thanks Jetguy!
Yes, John, by all means put Rotax's collective feet to the fire on the fuel pump issue. I don't know if their USA distribution set-up protects them from liability but it sure insulates them from accountability.
In addition to the replacement/cost question, it would be useful to know how many of the old-style pumps failed from leaking, how many of the 912 pumps which they replaced failed due to over-pressure and what specifically (screws rather than crimp?) was addressed on the newest pump.
It would also be good to know if the newest pump was specifically manufactured for the 912 or was found in a catalog of replacement parts for Austrian airboats or Moravian motorcycles.
Thank you for once again taking the point at the EAA events for those of us who are unable to talk face-to-face with Rotax USA.
Jim
#264
flying 101 hours on second original-style fuel pump with pressure holding
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03-26-2012, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Gloversville, NY
Posts: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
As already mentioned, Rotax currently has an exchange program that will get you an approx. 50% discount if you send in the old style pump........
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This must be something new. When I sent my failed pump in to Lockwood with the warrantee request some months back I didn't even get the courtesy of a reply.
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John Peck, CFII, A&P, EAA Tech Counselor, Flight Advisor.
?Master Pilot? Award, UFO Member.
RV-12 N37JP 120176 Flying since 2012.
One Week Wonder Build Team, OSH 2018.
VAF paid through 10/2019.
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03-26-2012, 06:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Aguanga, Ca
Posts: 55
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Latest Pump?
Received my engine a couple of months ago from Van's. Is this the new pump?

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03-26-2012, 06:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Friday Harbor, Wa
Posts: 300
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Yes.........
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MRT890
120042 RV-12
N112XP
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03-28-2012, 03:11 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,158
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no more refund
Just called Lockwood and they said they would need the pump by tomorrow but would not have time to do the paperwork to get the 50% refund. So if you want the new pump it will be 100% out of you pocket.
They recommended not replacing it unless it leaked......this does not sound good to me. I understand any pump can leak but you just don't hear about Lycoming pumps failing like you do this pump and if the new pump is a superior design, why would they not just recommend replacing it?
There are two numbers they need to know which one send you. 892-542 or 892-546. It will be on the flange. Let them know which one you have and they will let you know if they have it and how much it will cost.
Like others have said, I would like to see some failure rate data on both pumps.
Should have jumped on this Monday and it would have saved me one tank of gas.
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Scott Schmidt
Salt Lake City, UT
RV-10 N104XP (1280 Hours)
RV-12 N321UT (Sold)
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03-28-2012, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Barneveld, NY
Posts: 189
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I stopped by the Lockwood booth at SnF today and asked if they suggested preemptively replacing the pump with no issues with the existing one. They said no that they would not replace it with no issues with the existing pump.
Carl
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Private Pilot
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05-17-2012, 08:08 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,365
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Update -- new pump install
This should update my posts above (#6 & #13) regarding the new pump with vent line. I completed the install of the new fuel pump today during an ACI. I had no problem at all with the old pump but feel this is a worth while upgrade due to the history of the old pump and the fact that this new pump has a vent line to overboard. If you buy the pump w/o the fuel lines attached the cost is reasonable -- approx $115 when I bought it.
This picture shows it completed except I have not pulled the fire sleeve clamps up tight until I test run the motor and check for leaks:

The fuel hoses are put on the old pump with compression clamps that had to be (carefully) cut off. I used Oetiker clamps to reinstall the hoses. The fire sleeve will slip over the Oetikers.
Also something to note is that the old pump insulator gasket had been installed at the factory with a thin film of sealant on the side facing the gear housing but not on the other side. The installation instructions for the new pump state that no sealant is necessary. The difference that I see is that the new pump has an 'O' ring on it's flange. I installed it without any sealant, per the instructions.
The vent line installs in tight quarters:

The vent is held to the oil return tubes with Adel clamps, and you can just see the clamps on the back tube in this picture. It was a little difficult getting them on, but doable.
As I said, the old pump ran trouble free for 135 hours and I expect it would have gone hundreds more hours. Hopefully this new pump will run as good, plus I will have the peace of mind attributed to the vent to overboard  .
Tony
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Tony
E-LSA RV-12 ULS
Last edited by Tony_T : 07-07-2012 at 07:47 PM.
Reason: clarified 'O' ring position
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