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03-09-2012, 08:24 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbehrent
If apple hasn't drastically increased battery power, don't expect your battery to last anywhere close to the older iPads if you have 4g turned on.
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Looks like they went from a 25-watt battery to a 42.5-watt. That should keep the battery life pretty good.
__________________
D.J. Roberts
RV-9
Empenage Finished
Wings Finished
Working on Fuselage
My blog
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03-09-2012, 08:53 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 110
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I would not count on a software TSOA for determining whether I should invest in hardware that I can't use in direct sunlight. I say 'software' because they will not likely be getting any hardware-specific approval that is not related to the fact that the approved software is only usable on the iPad. Besides, what's good for two pilots in an A320 is not necessarily good for a single pilot in an RV.
I have a first-generation iPad and have found that it is simply the wrong tool for the job in my cockpit. I will reserve judgment on the new iPad, but having seen no improvement to sunlight readability in the iPad2, I am not voluntarily suspending any respiratory function in anticipation.
I do like flight planning and checking weather and fuel prices on the iPad, but I just leave it in the flight bag when I'm flying. I would rather have paper charts. However, if they come out with a smaller iPad, I might change my mind because I think it is the combination of its size, weight, and sunlight readability that are primarily responsible for my low opinion.
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RV-7
In progress...
Last edited by LeeM_2000 : 03-09-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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03-09-2012, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hastings, MN
Posts: 582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino889
To all: anyone have the NITS count on the ipad 2?
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From AnandTech:
Display Quality Comparison
White Level Black Level Contrast Ratio
Apple iPad 2 #1 (AT&T 3G) 406 nits 0.42 nits 966:1
Apple iPad 2 #2 (VZW 3G) 409 nits 0.49 nits 842:1
Apple iPad 2 #3 (WiFi) 352 nits 0.45 nits 778:1
Apple iPad 2 #4 (WiFi) 354 nits 0.41 nits 859:1
Interesting that they found that the 3G versions had more brightness. Even if you don't subscribe to cellular data service, the GPS and higher brightness may justify the $130 extra.
__________________
Ed Kranz
RV-10 N829EC - Flying
First Flight: 8/29/15
KSGS - Fleming Field, South Saint Paul, Minnesota
YouTube.com/GoodPlaneLiving -- Build Timelapse and Travel Videos . . GoodPlaneLiving.com -- Build and Travel Blog
Last edited by NovaBandit : 03-09-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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03-09-2012, 11:46 AM
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Forum Peruser
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
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Two different aviation uses of iPads
We had a presentation of both ForeFlight and WingX Pro 7 on iPads at our last EAA meeting by two local pilots and surprisingly one of the pilots said he only used his iPad 2 for Flight planning, checking the weather, etc.
He has years of experience as a Radio Station engineer and he said he just doesn't trust electrons.  He'd rather trust "steam gauges" in his cockpit. It was quite surprising because he was obviously very adept at making the iPad 2 do everything he wanted it to do. (He sells computers and electronic parts for a living.)
The other pilot took the opposite view. He happened to be a Beta tester for WingX Pro 7 and also was quite adept with his iPad. There was no argument between the two, but the second pilot admitted that he had a Chelton EFIS, a panel IFR certified GPS and a Garmin 496 in his airplane. And when his wife is with him, she has a Garmin 396, too!
Neither of the pilots flew airplanes with bubble canopies, so the glare problem was never discussed.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!
?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard
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03-09-2012, 01:46 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 456
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iPad is not an EFIS
Just offering my 2-cents here but I would not use the iPad as a flight instrument. I am speaking for them, but I am sure Apple would say the same (it does have a 10K foot limit). But it does make an excellent planning tool. So for me, I am not concerned with its sunlight readability because I will never use it that way.
That being said, I can?t say what the screen brightness will be, but from those who should know, I have heard everything from 300 to 600 nits.
I am not anti-electron. After all I have chosen to run only glass (no steam) in my -6A. But those instruments have been designed for that purpose and have been tested for that purpose
The ipad 3?s additional battery is most likely due to the extra power consumed by the display and 4G. It is 0.9mm thicker than the iPad 2 and Apple would only allow this for a really good reason.
__________________
Michael Delpier
RV6A -O-320, fixed pitch, GRT Sport, 496
RV-10 - working on finish kit
Houston
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03-09-2012, 06:45 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NorCal
Posts: 565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D
Just offering my 2-cents here but I would not use the iPad as a flight instrument.
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If I read you correctly I agree  That is, I wouldn't depend on the iPad for a primary flight-important instrument with no backup.
That said--and I'm still building mind you--my intention is to use a single Dynon Skyview for the main flight/engine display with an iPad as navigation. But the Skyview also has nav so that can be secondary or primary. We'll see how that works out.
__________________
Ralph Finch
RV-9A QB-SA
Davis, CA
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03-09-2012, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D
Just offering my 2-cents here but I would not use the iPad as a flight instrument. I am speaking for them, but I am sure Apple would say the same (it does have a 10K foot limit).
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What do you mean by a 10,000' limit? Even having it on?
I rarely fly below 10,000' when going cross-country.
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03-09-2012, 07:12 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 456
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The environmental specs of the iPad limit the altitude. As do most CE products.
Quote:
Operating temperature: 32? to 95? F (0? to 35? C)
Nonoperating temperature: -4? to 113? F (-20? to 45? C)
Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
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I am not an electrical engineer, but the ones I work with say thin air has some affect on the tolerances that are possible. To make a tight PCB like the iPad, those limits are pushed.
Also, note the noncondencing limitation. Ever have the canope fog up on the way down from altitude. Yeah, me neither, but a F-16 had it happen
Buggsy2, I would not use it as a primary back up either. But I do keep it near on long x-countries. 
__________________
Michael Delpier
RV6A -O-320, fixed pitch, GRT Sport, 496
RV-10 - working on finish kit
Houston
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03-09-2012, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ely, Nevada
Posts: 223
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17,500
I think there is an Apple published specification about using the GPS above 10,000 feet, and once heard that the limit was a certification issue. I'd like to know more.
I can say that my ipad1 always holds signal and performs normally up to 17,500 MSL. (I've flown paperless for since March 2009, many trips at 15 to 17.5 for winds. The ipad is not primary GPS, but it is the only "sectional chart/WAC" graphic onboard.) Lots of long trips, no signal loss. Never.
For other common concerns:
1. Heat. I did once get an ipad shutdown of about 4 minutes when the ipad overheated sitting on the glareshield. Not a big deal with other gps/nav capability, but it was troubling. The ipad gives no warning of impending heat related shutdown. It just shuts down. Clue: don't put ipad or iphone in direct sun for long.
2. GPS signal lock. Never had signal loss in an RV. Canopy provides a clear shot to satellites. The overhead metal in a C-172 class airplane will interfere and the user will be jockeying the ipad to retain uninterrupted signal. My conclusion: a separate GPS (wired or bluetooth) is needed for metal roof planes or non-3G ipads only. It adds nothing for 3G ipad running in the RV environment. (Caveat: the RV10 might be different.)
Related issue. If you shut the ipad down, it will take longer to "find" location once in the air. That is what the "assisted" GPS deal is: quick orientation upon startup using cell signal to obtain general location. If you start the GPS after takeoff and climb (which I did a time or two), or restart it while in the air after shutting it down and changing location substantially, it will take a while to get back onto satellite lock and a good fix. I don't remember the time, but it seemed long, perhaps 5 to 7 minutes. This is probably not the case if you are close to cell signals, say 3000ft agl or less. But, at 8K AGL or more, cell signal is not available (distance and metal beneath you) and the ipad takes a while to find signal without that cell tower assistance. Conclusion: start your nav program before takeoff.
3. Battery. GPS operation drains the battery faster. Starting with a 90 to 100% battery, I am down to <20% sometimes after 4 to 5 hours enroute. My ipad1 has a shorter battery life than the ipad2, apparently. So, I plug into power in the cockpit. Beats trying to get a charge at an FBO between flight legs.
4. Screen: Usable at all times, but sometimes needs trial and error of a couple angles to get readable in bright sun. Maybe the new screens are or will be better. Does not compete with Garmin, Vertical Power, or Advanced Flight screens -- but that should not surprise us.
Hope this is helpful.
__________________
Mike Coster
BUILDER: N92MB RV7A (A/W 3/2009) - Sold
ADOPTED/reworked: N4032Q RV8A (8/2017)
Building: S-21 Outback/Titan, tail and cockpit mated (3/2020)
KELY/Ely, NV
Last edited by mikerkba : 03-10-2012 at 04:02 AM.
Reason: I learnt to spel beter.
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03-10-2012, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NorCal
Posts: 565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7Guy
I have the iPhone 4S. The "S" is the one that has the better screen.
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The iPhone 4 and 4S have identical (Retina) screens. Maybe you're thinking of the 3GS and 4? The 4 was the first one with Retina screen.
__________________
Ralph Finch
RV-9A QB-SA
Davis, CA
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