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  #91  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:42 PM
N8RV's Avatar
N8RV N8RV is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,186
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I, too, am surprised by the number of give-me-two-seats-or-give-me-death comments. Given DR's requirements, adding a seat adds weight, which requires beefier structure (more weight) and a bigger engine (more weight & $$).

I love my RV-8. It's fast, fun and relatively inexpensive to operate as planes go. However, like DR, 95% of my flights are solo -- AND I LIKE IT THAT WAY. Flying is my escape. When I fly, my job doesn't exist, I don't have to converse with anyone and I can just listen to the music and enjoy the flight. That's just how I roll. And my wife doesn't like to fly.

So, as I contemplate eventual retirement, and most likely a fixed income, I would LOVE to have an economical, second plane to enjoy. It doesn't have to have Van's name on it. However, it would have:

One seat
Minimal instrumentation
Electric powerplant
Foldable wings
Open cockpit (Yes, I intend to move to somewhere warm!)
Easy (RV-ish) construction

Whether there are enough of my kind out there to warrant the design and fabrication of kits that meet my criteria remains to be seen. If things don't change with the economy, electric or small gas engines will see a growing market.

BTW, in a recent "Flying" magazine article, I think I read that a Rotax 912 FWF package is something like $30K! That's nuts.
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Peoria, AZ

Builder: RV-8 "Smokey"
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  #92  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:01 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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I think many people are misinterpreting some of the "2-place" comments.
I have no problem with this type aircraft being single seat.
I was simply stating that for MY circumstances, I don't want a single seat aircraft.
Less than 5% of my flights are solo
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #93  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:11 PM
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PRIME PRIME is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 72
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So Doug, where can we find the build log for your legal eagle? I am a big fan of the airplane... I can't wait to see the finished product!

[ed. Look at Sam's at www.eaglexl-58.com Mine isn't online yet. dr]
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-Travis Prime
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Preview Plans, RV8. Saving $$, Planning, Dreaming.
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 03-05-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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  #94  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:28 PM
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Steve Ashby Steve Ashby is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stone Mountain, Georgia
Posts: 483
Default A Kolb Firestar would fit the bill

I hope I am not perceived as a party pooper, but there are several proven designs that would fit Doug's criteria. The Kolb Firestar is an excellent design [ed. Not all metal. dr] that has been flying for a generation with great success. A kit with engine package can be had for about $21k. As an added bonus, you can take a (small to medium) passenger riding tandem. With the pusher motor, viz is great, enhancing the free flight experience. Am I way off base?
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Steve Ashby
Stone Mountain, GA
N184RW (reserved)
RV-8A
YIO-360 180 hp Lycoming
Hartzell Blended Airfoil Prop
Engine Hung

Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 03-06-2012 at 04:54 AM.
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  #95  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:51 PM
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Phyrcooler Phyrcooler is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 497
Cool Don't marginalize the 2nd seat

I've had to rethink my flying plans since life plans (and economy) changed. Like many of you... I am thinking about low cost flyers... which was I think the impetus for DR's discussion herein. However, everyone quickly poo-poos the two seat problem by the stat that MOST flights are solo. I wouldn't argue that... but I will tell you... NOT having the ability to take my boys flying in anything but a spam can is not an option. They may only comprise 5 or 10% of my flights in the future... but I will not deny them and myself the pleasure of taking them up in OUR plane. For medical reasons I'm pretty much eyeing LSA. I've also almost got myself talked into V-dub power as a possibility. Looking for options currently. For all the "Religious" reasons previously mentioned... gosh I wish it were a Van's... but at this point the closest thing on the horizon is the CX-5.

Doug... I respect the out of the box thinking... but for some of us that second little seat is pretty dang important.

DJ
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  #96  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:54 PM
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LeeM_2000 LeeM_2000 is offline
 
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Location: KS
Posts: 110
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For those of you who need a second seat, buy an RV-12.
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In progress...
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  #97  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:11 PM
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Phyrcooler Phyrcooler is offline
 
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Posts: 497
Default Nothing cheap about the 12

The discussion is around the reality that we need a CHEAP around the patch flyer. The 12 isn't even close on the economics. Doug's got some great ideas, but I think we're thinking half the cost of a 12.
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  #98  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:35 PM
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Stogie 6 Stogie 6 is offline
 
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Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ashby View Post
I hope I am not perceived as a party pooper, but there are several proven designs that would fit Doug's criteria. The Kolb Firestar is an excellent design [ed. Not all metal. dr] that has been flying for a generation with great success. A kit with engine package can be had for about $21k. As an added bonus, you can take a (small to medium) passenger riding tandem. With the pusher motor, viz is great, enhancing the free flight experience. Am I way off base?
The Doug Reeves DR-15 [sounds like a mower!](RV-15) is an excellent idea. As far as a Kolb Firestar goes...I logged 1.3 yesterday and got to see a wonderful sunset at 50 mph/500 ft agl. 3 gals of gas...cost of flight was at or near $15.00! Got my flying fix for the week. Now to wait for the winds to calm down!
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David F. Jones, AIA
LTC, USA (RET)
Memphis, Tennessee
RV6-A - (tail sold)
Kolb Firestar KXP (sold)
Sonex Onex (N153TD) Flying

Last edited by Stogie 6 : 03-06-2012 at 12:39 PM. Reason: spelling error
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  #99  
Old 03-06-2012, 04:19 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
Default 2-Seat Legal Eagle and Firestar's Materials

If you really like the LE but want a two-seater, the Double Eagle is that plane. Same designer, same type of construction, using a full VW instead of the 1/2 VW of the Legal Eagle. Similar performance. Vne is 102 or 103 mph.

If you like the Firestar but want all metal, well it's mostly all metal. The structure is all metal, covered with fabric. The cabin is a fiberglass shell that's attached to the steel tube cage. Typically available used for under $10k. Good value.

I owned one years ago. Nice plane, noisy, and a lot of glare on the windscreen. Flew fine.

Dave
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  #100  
Old 03-06-2012, 05:13 PM
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kentb kentb is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canby, Oregon
Posts: 1,786
Default I am interested.....

I think that at some point I'll need to switch to LSA for medical reasons as well as economy. I hope that I have a few years left with my 9A and have been looking into the Carbon Cub as my next plane.
I don't like the expense of the CC and would like a cheaper way to go, but at 250lb I'll need at least 1.5 seats in my new plane.

Kent
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RV9A N94KJ - IO320, CS, tipup
AFS 3500, TT AP, FLYING....
Canby, Or
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