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02-14-2012, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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horzizonal stabilizer build question
OK, now that I have worked for a few hours on my project I was starting to consider myself an expert. Then I got to clecoing the skin on the HS. Everything was great until I got to the angle ribs on the end ? HS 905, HS 905. I am not a mathematician, but with the ribs going at an angle, the holes will not line up with those on the skin. My questions are:
1. Do I do whatever it takes by stretching the rib flange at the spars to make the holes line up?
2. Do I drill new holes using the skin as the pattern?
3. Is there another option?
Another question I have is about the cleco?s. When I look at photos of other builders, every hole has a cleco in it. Is that necessary? What advantage is there putting one in every hole? Since so many do it, there must be a good reason that I can?t see ? even after several hours of assembly experience!
I am enjoying the build. I think the plans and the manual could easily be improved and made much easier to understand. Im sure as I get further into the project, I will understand the drawings better, but I know if my engineers ever gave me drawings as incomplete and unclear, they would be back at the CAD program.
Thanks for the help. I appreciate it.
Rockwood
[IMG]  [/IMG]
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02-14-2012, 06:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 427
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Asking questions was definitely the right thing to do, Rockwood. I'm like you, and have to overcome my tendency to barge right ahead until I face an insurmountable roadblock. Here's some answers from one beginner to another, so don't take them as gospel:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9
1. Do I do whatever it takes by stretching the rib flange at the spars to make the holes line up?
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Not sure what you mean by "stretching" here, but follow the directions about straightening the flanges using a fluting tool. My general advice is "slow way down", especially at the beginning. Take a class. Get some local help on site. Read the plans once and again (for example, are you certain your flanges are facing the correct direction?)
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2. Do I drill new holes using the skin as the pattern?
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Definitely not. On the pre-punched kits, you shouldn't need to do that.
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3. Is there another option?
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This question is kinda answered by your later one. A cleko in every hole may not be necessary (but might help sometimes, like on the trailing edge wedge), but a cleko every other hole when things aren't fitting will often pull everything into alignment.
I'm almost certain you were kidding about the "expert" feeling after a few hours. I sometimes feel less capable even after many hours of learning on the job.
Have you built the two practice kits? They're definitely one way to break cheap parts before you attempt expensive ones.
--
Stephen
Last edited by fatherson : 02-14-2012 at 09:03 PM.
Reason: stupid auto-correct
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02-14-2012, 06:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ehprata, WA
Posts: 318
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Granted, it's been a couple of years since I've even looked at my HS, but those ribs look backwards to me... the web of the rib should be inboard and the rib flange should face out towards the skin edge.
__________________
Nate Benson
Ephrata, WA
RV9A/Slider N608MA
Flying
KitProject.com
"If you think you can do a thing, or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Last edited by cln1owner : 02-14-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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02-14-2012, 06:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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was able to get the holes to line up
With some gyrations, I was able to get the holes to line up. The fit of the shim and the doubler on the spar along with the rib being positioned at an angle, it had just stretched a bit. With a little pushing and using a nail in the holes to help, it worked out fine.
As for being an expert after a couple hours, I thought everyone felt that way!
I did build the tool box and made a few other things around the house. i picked up some AL in Denver last week and have been experimenting on it. I picked up 1/8 and 3/32 bits and forgot to get the #30-#40 bits to ream out the holes, so I am assembling what I can until Thurs when the bits will be here. I don't have a hand squeezer yet, but I do have the DRDT-2 and that makes a great dimple.
One thing i need is something better than a finish nail to line up the holes. I bought a Bostitch 1.16" pin punch. That lasted about 3 holes until it snapped. What are you using to find the holes and align them if needed?
Thanks for the help.
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02-14-2012, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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correct
Quote:
Originally Posted by cln1owner
Granted, it's been a couple of years since I've even looked at my HS, but those ribs look backwards to me... the web of the rib should be inboard and the rib flange should face out towards the skin edge.
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I did notice that when I was aligning them and flipped them around. Thanks for noticing! That helped a bit with the hole alignment, but adjusting the shil - rib angle made it fit. thanks
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02-14-2012, 06:27 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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The more clecos you have in the structure, the better aligned things will be ---usually. They keep the skin pucker at a minimum, but are heavy and too many can distort an assembly unless it is supported well, or fully clecoed
A trick you could use is to put in 3 or 5 in a row, and then remove the center one drill that hole out, and then leapfrog down the line, keeping at least one cleco on either side of whatever hole you are working on. In the area you have already match drilled, just use enough clecos to keep things from falling apart.
As to the angle rib thing, I have not heard of someone having that issue before, so I would tend to suspect you have something wrong. Either the correct rib installed incorrectly, or the wrong rib in the first place.
Good luck, carry on 
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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02-14-2012, 06:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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clarify
Quote:
Originally Posted by cln1owner
Granted, it's been a couple of years since I've even looked at my HS, but those ribs look backwards to me... the web of the rib should be inboard and the rib flange should face out towards the skin edge.
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I tried the ribs both ways to see if they fit. I am about ready to get an air cleco gun after the assembly, tear down, twice! The picture is the second time with the ribs reversed. I pealed off all the plastic and that made the difference.
Everything fits fine now. I measured the holes in the skin and Vans allowed for the length change because of the angle.
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02-14-2012, 07:57 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: lake charles, La.
Posts: 699
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just a note
to remember, on assembly always check carefully on the drawings, especially with ribs. In general, the outboard ribs and inboard ribs usually install with flanges outward. The reason is for access to rivet them, some other parts during the build are like this also. When you get to the wings be especially careful as to which ribs go where. They look very similar but are different. On the wings you will be installing some ribs marked L/H on the right wing and vice versa. Pay close attention to this by double checking on the drawings. It will save you a lot of trouble as you build. hope this helps.
bird
__________________
Bird
rv8 entire airframe at airport now, painting done, intersection and gear upper and lower fairings done, maybe order engine around first of year or before the next rate increase.
"to fly is a privilege that I am so thankful to God for"
http://www.mykitlog.com/tcb328/
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02-14-2012, 08:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Secluded Lake,Alaska (AK49)
Posts: 359
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Alignment
I use a couple of sharp scribes to help align things. Also note that clecos fill the hole one way, but not 90 degrees out. The can be put in "narrow" and rotated "fat" before releasing to help pull in the direction you want. Using a cleco in every hole, chasing the alignment as you go is common around leading edges. As far as prints and instructions, I have found these to be more that adequate. However I also have 20+ years banging rivets. Just because I know what Vans is after doesn't mean everyone will. Many of us here are only to glad to help.
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02-14-2012, 08:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Beautiful downtown Winnemucca
Posts: 87
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slow down
As others have said, slow down and check the drawings very carefully. You don't want to install ribs facing the wrong way or the wrong rib in certain locations (it can be done).
Be very careful using a nail, punch or other prying tool in the holes. If you are using enough force to break a punch, you are distorting the holes. I have a couple of punches that I have ground down to use as line-up tools but I use these as a last resort. 90% of the time if things don't line-up it is because I am doing it wrong.
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