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  #21  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:11 PM
FloridaJohn FloridaJohn is offline
 
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Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7charlie View Post
If the FAA is basically charging by download, allowing the purchaser to distribute/resell the data with no additional payments to FAA
Nope. That is not what the FAA is proposing. The FAA is proposing the purchaser (aka the software companies/websites) pay to download the data from the FAA, and then pay an additional license fee for EACH USER who then uses that data.

The FAA is also proposing a requirement for each software company to also copyright the data provided by the FAA, thereby preventing anyone else from using the data for other purposes. The FAA is not allowed to copyright public data (by law), but by requiring the software companies to copyright the data, the are effectively taking the data out of the public domain.
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  #22  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:24 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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It's sad to see Runwayfinder go, but I have to admit I haven't used it since the FlightPrep debacle anyway. Aeronav is taking the chart and AFD business private, just like NavCanada did with the Canadian airspace data a number of years ago. That means there is no electronic data without paying through the nose for it or obtaining it though back doors.

If the real cost was the Internet bandwidth, they could fix that in a heartbeat by distributing through BitTorrent. I suspect the real costs are the preparation costs, which have probably lost funding over the years. Those costs will exist despite the distribution method chosen, so they need to recover them.
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  #23  
Old 02-11-2012, 07:08 AM
jmbaute jmbaute is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBaier View Post
I think the focal point here is really AeroNav - not so much FightPrep. The AeroNav fee changes seem to be more of the common denominator than the patent wars (which are probably being waged more quietly).

Specific to the AeroNav fees -

Runway Finder is going away.

Nacomatic is gone.

Chartbundle is going. (http://sdwflying.blogspot.com/search...&max-results=7)

For now, PDFPlates.Com, FltPlan.Com and NavMonster.Com are still chugging along. It's still unclear how the fee changes are going to affect them.

On the electronic front, I'm really hoping Naviator hangs in there.

Dan
I'm really sad to see Runwayfinder go. Back before I started PDFPlates.com, and actually enjoyed flying as a hobby (yep, it has ruined it), I used Dave's site before every flight. It would be great if he could leave it up as is, with expired data, because it is great for back of the envelope, how far, how long type of planning. But, without current weather maybe not as useful. I can completely see where he is coming from. Running this type of website is maintenance intensive and takes away from personal and family time.

As for PDFPlates, we're still waiting to see what the Aeronav fee structure will be before we make any decisions on the future of the website.

Thanks for everything, Dave!
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  #24  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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flion flion is offline
 
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I use AirNav as my online AFD, which links Runway Finder for charts. I hate to see RF go (add my thanks, Dave, for the years of service) and I shudder to think of the other services we use that will be affected.

I'm having trouble following the money trail. Is this an FAA thing to offset the user fees they've failed to get or is it a funding issue for NOAA, where the data actually comes from?
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  #25  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:36 AM
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DanBaier DanBaier is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbaute View Post
As for PDFPlates, we're still waiting to see what the Aeronav fee structure will be before we make any decisions on the future of the website.
Great service - I hope you can make it work.

Dan
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  #26  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:52 AM
jmbaute jmbaute is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flion View Post
I'm having trouble following the money trail. Is this an FAA thing to offset the user fees they've failed to get or is it a funding issue for NOAA, where the data actually comes from?
If you believe what the FAA is telling us, they need to cover their costs of production and distribution, and charts have never been free. The digital charts were free to this point because they couldn't figure out how to charge you for it. Now, that is changing. However, a (mostly) direct quote from Fred Anderson of the FAA at the recent meeting with industry:

They want to stop the "guy in the basement" from distributing charts.

So, while I find that personally insulting (and told them so), there also seem to be other motives behind this (strictly my opinion).
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:58 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
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Default follow the money is right

Consider the effort several years ago to 'privatize' government owned weather satellites. Who would benefit from that?

Consider the 'user fee' issue, & the fact that the airlines are happy with the idea.
Who would benefit from that?

Consider the current chart data situation, & the fact that only a few 'big dog' distributors can handle the fees.
Who benefits from that?

See a pattern yet?

Charlie
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  #28  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:20 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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In the end, is this process:

1) Improving GA safety
2) Degrading GA safety
3) No impact to GA safety
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  #29  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:37 AM
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AltonD AltonD is offline
 
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While slightly off topic, this rehash of an old topic is timely. I walked past FlightPrep's booth at Sun N Fun last year. Not a sole was stopping to talk to them.
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  #30  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:26 AM
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rv7boy rv7boy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
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Unhappy Thanks, Dave Parsons for seven great years of RunwayFinder

Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke View Post
Trying to get this tread back to the positive.
Runway finder has been a favorite of mine for many years. That was even before i knew it was a product of a fellow RVator. I wish Dave success or fun in his next hobby and hope it causes less headaches in the end.
I can't say it any better than the post I quoted here. Thanks again, Dave.

P.S. I believe today, being the last day of February, marks the end of RunwayFinder.
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