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02-10-2012, 08:11 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Posts: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7charlie
If the FAA is basically charging by download, allowing the purchaser to distribute/resell the data with no additional payments to FAA
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Nope. That is not what the FAA is proposing. The FAA is proposing the purchaser (aka the software companies/websites) pay to download the data from the FAA, and then pay an additional license fee for EACH USER who then uses that data.
The FAA is also proposing a requirement for each software company to also copyright the data provided by the FAA, thereby preventing anyone else from using the data for other purposes. The FAA is not allowed to copyright public data (by law), but by requiring the software companies to copyright the data, the are effectively taking the data out of the public domain.
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02-10-2012, 10:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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It's sad to see Runwayfinder go, but I have to admit I haven't used it since the FlightPrep debacle anyway. Aeronav is taking the chart and AFD business private, just like NavCanada did with the Canadian airspace data a number of years ago. That means there is no electronic data without paying through the nose for it or obtaining it though back doors.
If the real cost was the Internet bandwidth, they could fix that in a heartbeat by distributing through BitTorrent. I suspect the real costs are the preparation costs, which have probably lost funding over the years. Those costs will exist despite the distribution method chosen, so they need to recover them.
__________________
Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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02-11-2012, 07:08 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBaier
I think the focal point here is really AeroNav - not so much FightPrep. The AeroNav fee changes seem to be more of the common denominator than the patent wars (which are probably being waged more quietly).
Specific to the AeroNav fees -
Runway Finder is going away.
Nacomatic is gone.
Chartbundle is going. ( http://sdwflying.blogspot.com/search...&max-results=7)
For now, PDFPlates.Com, FltPlan.Com and NavMonster.Com are still chugging along. It's still unclear how the fee changes are going to affect them.
On the electronic front, I'm really hoping Naviator hangs in there.
Dan
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I'm really sad to see Runwayfinder go. Back before I started PDFPlates.com, and actually enjoyed flying as a hobby (yep, it has ruined it), I used Dave's site before every flight. It would be great if he could leave it up as is, with expired data, because it is great for back of the envelope, how far, how long type of planning. But, without current weather maybe not as useful. I can completely see where he is coming from. Running this type of website is maintenance intensive and takes away from personal and family time.
As for PDFPlates, we're still waiting to see what the Aeronav fee structure will be before we make any decisions on the future of the website.
Thanks for everything, Dave!
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02-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 2,653
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I use AirNav as my online AFD, which links Runway Finder for charts. I hate to see RF go (add my thanks, Dave, for the years of service) and I shudder to think of the other services we use that will be affected.
I'm having trouble following the money trail. Is this an FAA thing to offset the user fees they've failed to get or is it a funding issue for NOAA, where the data actually comes from?
__________________
Patrick Kelley - Flagstaff, AZ
RV-6A N156PK - Flying too much to paint
RV-10 14MX(reserved) - Fuselage on gear
http://www.mykitlog.com/flion/
EAA Technical Counselor #5357
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02-11-2012, 08:36 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbaute
As for PDFPlates, we're still waiting to see what the Aeronav fee structure will be before we make any decisions on the future of the website.
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Great service - I hope you can make it work.
Dan
__________________
RV7A (N7101) - Flying 10/2008
CFI- SE/ME/Inst
A&P
KC2ZEL
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02-11-2012, 08:52 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flion
I'm having trouble following the money trail. Is this an FAA thing to offset the user fees they've failed to get or is it a funding issue for NOAA, where the data actually comes from?
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If you believe what the FAA is telling us, they need to cover their costs of production and distribution, and charts have never been free. The digital charts were free to this point because they couldn't figure out how to charge you for it. Now, that is changing. However, a (mostly) direct quote from Fred Anderson of the FAA at the recent meeting with industry:
They want to stop the "guy in the basement" from distributing charts.
So, while I find that personally insulting (and told them so), there also seem to be other motives behind this (strictly my opinion).
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02-11-2012, 08:58 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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follow the money is right
Consider the effort several years ago to 'privatize' government owned weather satellites. Who would benefit from that?
Consider the 'user fee' issue, & the fact that the airlines are happy with the idea.
Who would benefit from that?
Consider the current chart data situation, & the fact that only a few 'big dog' distributors can handle the fees.
Who benefits from that?
See a pattern yet?
Charlie
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02-11-2012, 09:20 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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In the end, is this process:
1) Improving GA safety
2) Degrading GA safety
3) No impact to GA safety
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02-11-2012, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dothan, Alabama
Posts: 1,487
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While slightly off topic, this rehash of an old topic is timely. I walked past FlightPrep's booth at Sun N Fun last year. Not a sole was stopping to talk to them.
__________________
Alton DeWeese
N526RV RV7A Tip Up, IO360 180 W/Hartzel BA prop.
Flying ~950 hours since Aug 2010
N4IDH
Construction Log
?The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one.?
?Mark Twain
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02-29-2012, 11:26 AM
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Forum Peruser
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
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Thanks, Dave Parsons for seven great years of RunwayFinder
Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke
Trying to get this tread back to the positive.
Runway finder has been a favorite of mine for many years. That was even before i knew it was a product of a fellow RVator. I wish Dave success or fun in his next hobby and hope it causes less headaches in the end.
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I can't say it any better than the post I quoted here. Thanks again, Dave.
P.S. I believe today, being the last day of February, marks the end of RunwayFinder.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!
?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard
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