I am so bad at this

Clarkie · #1 02-08-2012, 02:43 PM

So yesterday I messed up big and had to order a HS front spar and two ribs. Today, I figured I'd attempt to rivet the right side HS structure and I messed up the very first rivet I attempted. I split the manufactured head of the AN470 so bad it didn't even look like a rivet. Luckily I manage to get it out with no damage to the holes, but I'm starting to wonder if this is possible. I have a great adviser who has shown me a great deal and I feel I've learned a lot, but the results just aren't there. Please tell me this gets easier as you go and this is completely normal before aluminum parts start flying at my garage wall.

randyintejas · #2 02-08-2012, 02:47 PM

Take a deep breath man! go find you some practice material and play with it for awhile. you are learning new skills and some get it faster than other. you can get there

bill v · #3 02-08-2012, 02:59 PM

I have a terrible time controlling both the gun and the bucking bar (lost my helper) I have to clamp a block of wood to the part and use this wood to hold my bucking bar against so that i don't vibrate off the rivet (if room permits) the wood has a slot cut into it so that the bucking bar is held on three sides and i only have one direction to worry about. Also watch the pressure you use on the gun.

WSBuilder · #4 02-08-2012, 03:10 PM

Several threads on riveting, but like said, "practice". For me, concentrating more on the gun and less on the bucking bar made a big difference. Find what works for you and yes, it gets better/easier. Then you quit for a while and then you get to re-learn everything. Repeat as necessary......

Pat Hatch · #5 02-08-2012, 03:15 PM

Tom, if you have the type of rivet gun with a trigger that meters the air, I would practice squeezing the trigger very slowly until it just begins to tap the rivet, very slowly and lightly. As this happens, you get some feedback as to the position and feel of your bucking bar--and if everything feels right, gradually increase pressure on the trigger until the tapping gets stronger and faster. If everything feels right, give it a full head of steam for a second or two. Back off and check out the result. Tip: Do not let off pressure on the rivet with the set & bucking bar until you are sure the gun has stopped firing. After you practice this for a while you will be amazed at how easy the whole process becomes. Practice on some scrap first, for sure!

DeltaAlphaZulu · #6 02-08-2012, 03:52 PM

I'm still very early in the whole thing here, but feel "reasonably" comfortable. I did a workshop like the Sportair's in the US. Came away with a LOT of new knowledge and experience. Can't advise that more strongly, if you have access. Alternatively, as others have said, get someone to show you. Also, spend time here researching and reading - one of the best resources around. If a picture tells a thousand words, moving pictures might tell a million. Take a look at the big range of EAA video clips available. No doubt even if you don't find exactly the right thing for this particular problem (and I'm sure the answer is there), you could spend a few whole days watching their stuff and learning new techniques and ideas you will use in the future. Also, check youtube for available clips. I just did a search for "riveting 101" and came up with one that might help. Covers much more than technique, gives some good background info on solid rivets (sizing etc). Take a look at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hB3rIECtxM
Lastly, as someone already said, get some scrap, and a bunch of rivets and practice ... and practice ... and practice. I did what I was told once and drove 20 rivets every day for a whole week before I even let one rivet get a glance of my empennage pieces, and I haven't had to drill one out yet. I'm sure I will, its bound to happen. Take it slow. With the practice, practice not only technigue in terms of holding and griping the pieces and tools, but also factors like air pressure. Also, I'd suggest (and have done the same myself - on the Toolbox practice project), looking at alternative techniques such as using a hand held rivet squeezer (recommend the Cleaveland MainSqueeze if you haven't already got one). Maybe a more hand-held manual technique will let you get going and build up confidence. Another idea - where you can, use a back-riveting plate and rivet that way instead of using a bucking bar - probably lets you eliminate one factor in the whole thing allowing you to focus and concentrate more on holding the rivet gun firmly, straight on to the work etc etc.

Hope that helps.

mill2978 · #7 02-08-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarkie

Please tell me this gets easier as you go and this is completely normal before aluminum parts start flying at my garage wall.

It does get easier. I had to reorder the very first part I ever drilled and I am sure it was just the first reorder.

I agree with the others that have said about practice. Anytime I do something for the first time I take some scrap(if you have to go buy scrap is it really scrap?) and replicate, as closely as I can, what I am going to be doing on the real parts. Sometimes it's tedious and an exercise in the obvious, sometimes you end up shooting the flush mushroom head across the garage because 90PSI is way too much pressure, and you are just glad it missed the aluminum that you don't want to be scrap.

Don't get too discouraged, you will get the hang of it!

Dave62 · #8 02-08-2012, 04:22 PM

I am not sure how VAN's teaches or talks about riveting but the most common mistake I see is way too much air pressure to the rivet gun trying to use the "regulator" at the gun. Most regulators at the gun are not regulators but rather adjustable bleed orifices. A good rule of thumb is to use 30 PSI regulated pressure at the compressor for a number 3 rivet using a 3X rivet gun and 40 PSI regulated for a 4 rivet with the 3X gun. If you are using a 2X gun you will need to up the regulated pressure 5 or 8 PSI. The regulator at the compressor should be a good regulator that you can set a pressure and it will hold the pressure...such as one you use with a paint spray. Give this a try.
Dave62 (Swift driver)

Bob Axsom · #9 02-08-2012, 04:28 PM

I do have an adjustable regulator screwed into the air input port. I adjust it and run it against the work bench surface to make sure it has the right "feel" before I start driving rivets in the structure. It sounds like you have an air source and a rivet gun and it is not finely adjustable at the gun. BANG - BANG all on or all off you are at its mercy - not good.

Bob Axsom

jjconstant · #10 02-08-2012, 05:28 PM

One other thing that helped me was using a 3x gun. I can't remember where the recommendation came from, but I bought a 2x and was not very good with it. My mentor had a 3x and when I used it my riveting quality improved. Same with the bucking bar. Mass helps steady things. You could also experiment with different ways of bracing your hand holding the bucking bar. Just holding your arm and hand out in space with the bar on the rivet is tough. Look for ways to brace your hand or at least your elbow. Also look for a way to keep the gun close to your body, for the same reasons...holding it at a distance from your body makes it harder to control. 3x gun and a tungsten bucking bar may make things easier for you. This may also sound silly, but make sure you use good hearing protection. Not just to protect your hearing, but you may be flinching without it

All Best

Jeremy Constant