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View Poll Results: Is the RV-12 a suitable plateform for experimentation?
Yes, it is Experimental and anything goes. 42 54.55%
No, the 12 is a special case unlike other RVs. 35 45.45%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:28 PM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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Default

So how do those aftermarket tip tank makers get by wth it on factory built planes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedallas View Post
Don I looked at tip tanks for the 12, the spar at that end of the wing would need a lot of redesign and on a hard landing would add a lot moment to the spar at the fuselage. Small tanks maybe, but not big enough to replace the main tank
Can?t wait to see your Viking Flying.
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  #22  
Old 01-30-2012, 02:13 PM
dmasys dmasys is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
After all, is that not the start of Vans, remaking a proven kit into something he liked better?

.
Now there is an important observation. Fact is, how do you know you will like something better until you have flown the original configuration in enough flight regimes and circumstances to know what constitutes 'better'?

By unplanned coincidence this past year, my RV-10 was grounded for about six weeks with a maintenance issue, waiting for parts. Until then I considered the RV-12 my 'back up insurance policy' for the possibility of not renewing a third class medical. During the 6 weeks I had only the -12 to fly, I developed a deep respect for its handling and traveling capalities. Stated briefly it is a real sweetheart of a plane and clearly head and shoulders above any other LSA in terms of 'total performance.'

My $0.02 and it is only that, is that if folks finished their -12s in original configuration and flew them for 100 hrs before considering major redesigns, there would be a lot more happy campers, fatter wallets, and fewer structural and powerplant experiments in the works.

-Dan Masys
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  #23  
Old 01-30-2012, 02:46 PM
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rv7boy rv7boy is offline
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Smile Profound statement

Occasionally, a sentence just leaps off the page. This one is worth repeating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmasys View Post
...My $0.02 and it is only that, is that if folks finished their -12s in original configuration and flew them for 100 hrs before considering major redesigns, there would be a lot more happy campers, fatter wallets, and fewer structural and powerplant experiments in the works.

-Dan Masys
This could be said of RV's in general as well as the -12.
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2012, 03:52 PM
szicree szicree is offline
 
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Default Better Tank?

Having removable wings could be a huge plus even if it rarely gets used. For example, suppose you lose your hangar due to finances, flood, fire, etc. it would sure be nice to be able to store the plane at home til the situation improves.

It seems the only perceived downside to this is the fuel in the fuselage. So instead of redesigning the wings to be wet, perhaps the current tank could be re-thought to be more crash worthy. It seems that race car designers are ahead of us on this front.
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  #25  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:07 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is online now
 
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Default

Very soon 8DF will have it's wings removed (almost effortlessly I might add) and the fuse will come home to a heated garage for it's first conditional inspection. I will add power points for the ANR headsets and modify the fuel tank. Possibly a damper door as cold temps really do add to the pre-flight and the in flight heater temps. Beyond that, it's everything it's supposed to be. This is all made possible because of the clever wing design. .02c
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2012, 06:21 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
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Default Sentance jumps off the page

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7boy View Post
Occasionally, a sentence just leaps off the page. This one is worth repeating.



This could be said of RV's in general as well as the -12.
That same sentence jumped off the page for me too, but exactly opposite how you took it. What it said to me was that some people may want to build exactly as the plans call for. They may feel that is the best way to save money, time, and risk. That is right for you.

But, all of us aren't the same. That is why we didn't buy a Mooney, Cessna, or Cirrus. Each has valid reasons for building what and how they want. Even if it costs more, takes more time, or has risk, it is still our choice.
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  #27  
Old 01-30-2012, 08:26 PM
dick seiders dick seiders is offline
 
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My thoughts are the 12 is a sweet airplane as is. The small exceptions that I believe are fine are adding 2" alt. and airspeed gages, Joe gore's hookup for the AOA, stick pants, a few clamps here and there to improve support of components, etc., etc. I am convinced a lot of good engineering went into this design , and I have no interest in making major departures from it. That being said I also believe anyone who wants to can do what ever they desire. including major changes. I just haven't yet found any reason to do likewise. I do enjoy reading about these adventures tho as well as commenting on them. Good luck to you folks in the experimental skunk works, and be careful.
Dick Seiders
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2012, 08:52 PM
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Flyfalcons Flyfalcons is offline
 
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What's the reasoning for backup gauges on a VFR machine?
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  #29  
Old 01-30-2012, 08:58 PM
Peterk Peterk is offline
 
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Default Why Not?

What would be the rationale for modifications to any experimental aircraft that would not include the RV12? Light planes have been altered many times. Zenith and Kitfox have tried almost every engine made. The Jab 2200 will prove successful on the RV12. Many modifications are a result of need, either cost, comfort or appearance (its all about lookin good). The Rotax is a wonderful engine but also the most expensive. Everyone cannot affort a firewall foward that is half the price of the aircraft. Numerous alternatives exist now and more will appear. Everyone cannot afford a Skyview with synthetic vision they will never use. Everyone cannot fly in 10 degree weather without an innovative serious heating system. To say that an experimental plane is fine as is means the designer likes it as is. Once you buy it, its not his anymore...change whatever works for you and get it signed off.

According to the NTSB, 48% of last year's EAB accidents were not by crazy EAB builders but instead by the "future owner". We need to quit concentrating on these innovators and pay more attention to where these finished aircraft are actually finding a home. Bonanza's are certainly more forgiving than a Lancair but if you want to go 300 kts and can't build a birdhouse...just buy one.
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2012, 09:17 PM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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Spoken like a true TEXAN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterk View Post
What would be the rationale for modifications to any experimental aircraft that would not include the RV12? Light planes have been altered many times. Zenith and Kitfox have tried almost every engine made. The Jab 2200 will prove successful on the RV12. Many modifications are a result of need, either cost, comfort or appearance (its all about lookin good). The Rotax is a wonderful engine but also the most expensive. Everyone cannot affort a firewall foward that is half the price of the aircraft. Numerous alternatives exist now and more will appear. Everyone cannot afford a Skyview with synthetic vision they will never use. Everyone cannot fly in 10 degree weather without an innovative serious heating system. To say that an experimental plane is fine as is means the designer likes it as is. Once you buy it, its not his anymore...change whatever works for you and get it signed off.

According to the NTSB, 48% of last year's EAB accidents were not by crazy EAB builders but instead by the "future owner". We need to quit concentrating on these innovators and pay more attention to where these finished aircraft are actually finding a home. Bonanza's are certainly more forgiving than a Lancair but if you want to go 300 kts and can't build a birdhouse...just buy one.
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