Regretting ordering a slider

[RV7Guy]

I've been involved in the RV World about 10 years. My first year at Oshkosh I was evaluating the models. I was pretty set on a 7 but was undecided on the canopy. My completely unscientific survey showed a ratio of 4 to 1 in favor of Sliders for the 6, 7 and 9 series.

Shortly after, I found a project in progress and it was a tip up. I love it and found access to the [i]some[i] stuff nice but wasn't a cure all. I was dead set against access panels. I think they are ugly and present their own problems.

Over the years the ratio of Slider to Tip ups has closed slightly. Still favors the sliders. I bought a second project in progress, a 7. This time it is a slider. I have flown behind both and have found the visibility difference minimal. Sure the roll bar creates a small area of blockage but certainly nothing to call it dangerous or a major inconvenience.

Regarding the panel. The new 7 is using a composite panel with modular construction. Also using the Approach Systems wiring hub to minimize potential harness issues. Wiring behind there will be minimal. The sub panel has been skeletonized and reinforced with doublers. Removing either EFIS screen will give access to virtually everything. Very nice!!!

The cool factor. Well, they are RV's, they are all cool!!!!!

[N355DW]

I had a tip over on my Extra. Unrestricted visibility is nice, but buying a new canopy (or getting the money minus deductible from the insurance co.) for $18,000 after it blew open and smashed on the wing was not so nice.

It was my fault, and I know it's not near that much to replace canopy on an RV, but you are going to have some downtime if you do have to replace it. Given my experience I would probably be extra careful with a tip up if I had one, but why take the chance, or give myself the added worry? The visibility restriction from the roll bar in the slider is very, very slight, and I will never worry about losing the canopy. Easy decision for me.

Still haven't heard how many tip ups have been damaged by wind or prop blasts, is there any info on this? Are my worries groundless?

[Mel]

Originally Posted by N355DW

Still haven't heard how many tip ups have been damaged by wind or prop blasts, is there any info on this? Are my worries groundless?

Been around RVs since before the original -6 tip-up and I personally know of only one. I repaired it for a customer for less than $100. And this was one of the original canopies without the struts. I've been flying mine since 1993 without a problem. Still don't have struts. I don't like them!

[scard]

My opinion for those just frozen with fear that they'll make the wrong decision on a tip-up: Get out your checkbook, go to your local flight school, and spend ten hours bombing around in a nicely appointed (G1000) Diamond DA40 or similar. That is what I did, and never looked back. The nice side effect is being well armed during your build against all those people that talk about how hot you're going to be hot... and all the other "reasons" why not to build what you want. Our first was a tip-up, with almost 1000hrs, not a moment of regret or fear. The next one is a tip-over and ready for a finish kit next month. When this one is done, the next one is already entering the thought process, and it will be a tip-out .

Tip-up, Tip-over, Tip-out!

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by scard

My opinion for those just frozen with fear that they'll make the wrong decision on a tip-up: Get out your checkbook, go to your local flight school, and spend ten hours bombing around in a nicely appointed (G1000) Diamond DA40 or similar. That is what I did, and never looked back.

I spent my check book for some P-51D and Marchetti SF260 time. Both sliders.........and I was convinced!

[GusBiz]

Originally Posted by L.Adamson

I spent my check book for some P-51D and Marchetti SF260 time. Both sliders.........and I was convinced!

and spend ten hours bombing around in a nicely appointed (G1000) Diamond DA40

This is my point, notice the fighter pilot and notice the sight seer.

They are two different worlds. One is an about seeing the Machine, seeing the bolts and rivets and looking out to see if the bomb racks are still loaded ....the other is about total clarity, not just visibility, its about feeling like your not even in the aircraft. Its about seeing the outside but also its about not seeing the inside.

ANY conversation about visibility misses the point. Its more about what you don't see than what you see, and vice versa for the slider.

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by GusBiz

This is my point, notice the fighter pilot and notice the sight seer.

They are two different worlds. One is an about seeing the Machine, seeing the bolts and rivets and looking out to see if the bomb racks are still loaded ....the other is about total clarity, not just visibility, its about feeling like your not even in the aircraft. Its about seeing the outside but also its about not seeing the inside.

ANY conversation about visibility misses the point. Its more about what you don't see than what you see, and vice versa for the slider.

But..............I'm a sight seer too. It's the whole reason I built a plane. All of the great views of the western USA are only hours away........in a slider...

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by N355DW

Still haven't heard how many tip ups have been damaged by wind or prop blasts, is there any info on this? Are my worries groundless?

You may reasons for not going with a tip-up but your worries are groundless.

[N355DW]

Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan

You may reasons for not going with a tip-up but your worries are groundless.

Apparently the RV's have a much better record than I expected. Both the Pitts S2B and the Extra 300 have not so stellar records with their tip overs.

Ah well, I don't regret my decision!

And I certainly won't mind being seen in public associating with you tip-up drivers!

[scrollF4]

I have 2000 hours in F-4E, F, and G Phantoms, all back-seat time. My first 1200 of it was in the pit of the F-4G Wild Weasel. The Weasel's back seat instrument panel TOTALLY blocks all forward visibility, so much so that a pilots' instrument/qualification checkride could NEVER be flown as a single-ship sortie. Reason: A standards/evaluations flight examiner (SEFE) pilot in his back seat could not look forward to determine whether the evaluatee's instrument approach had arrived to a landable solution, ie, he couldn't see the runway. Therefore, F-4G Wild Weasel pilots' instrument checkrides ALWAYS required a SEFE chase.

The F-4E and -F fighter/bomber versions had a small gap in the backseater's instrument cluster's left and right side. You could see forward just enough to land the plane. In 1995 when I transitioned to these varients, I could not believe how MUCH visibility I had (always count your small blessings, eh?).

In 2010, when Joe Blank took me up in the Mothership's -7A (a tip-up)...well, they had me at "hello." I had NEVER enjoyed flying like I did that day. Sure I think I'd look pretty darned cool with a slider, arm hanging out on the rail, etc. But flying that tip-up with ZERO obstructions to my visibility...what pure joy. And I'm building for the JOY OF FLIGHT.

I don't scoff the slider, not at all. But mark my name under the "Tip-Up" column.

My 0.015714 Azerbaijani New Manats (or 2 cents US)