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  #21  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:15 AM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Why not simply insure the smoke switch is large and easily reached. Then drill into your head immediate action steps for engine failure with smoke off being the first step. Perhaps the switch should be next to the mixture control. It seems to me the bigger problem here was a lack of knowledge of what oil smoke can do if the engine fails. Now that we know that we change the procedures. Tapping into oil lines ect.. to prevent the problem seems to open up engine failure paths that could exceed the problem your trying to correct.

George
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:57 AM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
Why not simply insure the smoke switch is large and easily reached. Then drill into your head immediate action steps for engine failure with smoke off being the first step. Perhaps the switch should be next to the mixture control. It seems to me the bigger problem here was a lack of knowledge of what oil smoke can do if the engine fails. Now that we know that we change the procedures. Tapping into oil lines ect.. to prevent the problem seems to open up engine failure paths that could exceed the problem your trying to correct.

George
It's not that simple. Doing aerobatics close to the ground leaves little or no time to go through "immediate action steps" if something goes terribly wrong. If I had a flight control failure at 100 feet AGL I would devote 100% of my effort to flying the airplane. If the large red smoke switch was right in front of my face I would ignore it and fly my airplane as far into the crash as possible. We need something that works without pilot input.
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:25 AM
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Lionclaw Lionclaw is offline
 
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Will an inertia-activated fuel shutoff switch work?

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/p...uelshutoff.pdf
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2011, 08:33 AM
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Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionclaw View Post
Will an inertia-activated fuel shutoff switch work?

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/p...uelshutoff.pdf
Boy I dont see why not. FOr not only the smoke oil, but for an electric fuel pump which we always use at low levels.
I like this simple idea a lot.
Im gonna play with this idea.
At ~$65, its not an expensive solution. And I sure like that non-intrusive method of killing the pump without adding any more oil switch/lines etc.
Many thanks for this great lead. I had no idea these existed.
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2011, 08:34 AM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Kahuna what tou want to do can be easily accomplished with a few resistors, a comparitor, and a mosfet. Total cost, about $3.00. You would just hook this circuit right into your oil pressure sensor circuit and it would have no impact on your efis. Need to know the current draw of the pump and the voltage of the pressure sensor at zero oil pressure. Call me I'm at OSH.
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Last edited by rocketbob : 07-27-2011 at 09:00 AM.
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  #26  
Old 01-12-2012, 02:28 PM
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Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
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As a result of field testing and various bantering of ideas, we have settled on the inertia cut off switch. Thanks to the folks here on the forum for your help in improving safety for all of us.
Press release here.

Pasted text below.

Collaboration Yields Solution to Reduce Risk of Post-Impact Fires for Air Show Performers
(Atlanta, GA) January 12, 2012 ? Aerobatic pilots Buck Roetman of Wild Horse Aviation, and Mike Stewart, Flight Lead for Team RV, announce an important safety solution for professional air show pilots to reduce the risk of a post-impact fire: an inertia activated shut-off switch installed in the ground wire to fuel and smoke oil pumps. Roetman said the easy installation of this inexpensive switch is an "elegant and simple solution that every performer in the air show industry should consider."

Roetman and Stewart sought this solution in response to the forced landing last March of Kyle and Amanda Franklin in which the smoke oil pump fueled a fire that caused fatal burns to Amanda. In the immediate aftermath of the accident, Roetman, who is an International Council of Air Shows (ICAS) ACE (Aerobatic Competency Evaluation) pilot, and ICAS President John Cudahy informally discussed the need to prevent post-impact fires in cases where fuel tanks are not ruptured.

Initial discussions among several pilots included the merits of various shut-off switches such as a GPS switch, EGT switch, and oil pressure switch. Ultimately, Stewart found and suggested the use of the inertia switch which is used in auto racing and acts like a circuit breaker, but is tripped by high g's (10g or higher) associated with impact.

According to Jim Hillyer at Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies, a top supplier of the switch, the product has been used successfully for years on IndyCars and on high-end production cars with fuel injection systems that engage high pressure fuel pumps.

Concerned about inadvertently tripping the switch, Stewart and Roetman installed the device on their aircraft ? Stewart's RV-Super 8 and Roetman's modified Christen Eagle ? and tested high g maneuvers as well as hard landings. The switch did not activate under a +8 g load or -5 g load.

Kyle Franklin is installing this equipment in all of his aircraft, and urges every air show and competition pilot to add this or something similar. The g-meter in his Waco stopped at 11g during his hard landing. "This little switch could save you and your loved ones a lifetime of pain and grief. I truly feel if I had this switch on March 12 my beautiful wife Amanda would still be here," said Franklin.

Stewart reported that all 12 pilots on Team RV have installed the light weight switch as part of pre-season aircraft maintenance procedures. "Air show performers keep safety at the forefront always, and when accidents do happen, they happen to friends in this tight community and not simply to 'someone else.' As a result we take it to task to learn as much as possible from incidents and to find ways to improve safety where possible," said Stewart.

Wild Horse Aviation specializes in aircraft acquisition, maintenance, fabrication and export.
Team RV is the world's largest precision formation and formation aerobatics air show team.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:34 PM
131RB 131RB is offline
 
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Why not simply run the hose through a simple ball valve or fuel type shut off valve and make it part of your emergency checklist.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:40 PM
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C-FAH Q C-FAH Q is offline
 
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Default Great solution

Would one switch control both fuel and smoke oil pumps?
Some more information on device details and installation tips would be good.
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:45 PM
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Mark Burns Mark Burns is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 131RB View Post
Why not simply run the hose through a simple ball valve or fuel type shut off valve and make it part of your emergency checklist.
Kahuna wrote: "As a result of field testing and various bantering of ideas, we have settled on the inertia cut off switch."
That's good enough for me.

But to answer your question I think the main reason is that in a low level problem there is no time to complete the checklist.

Mark
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:50 PM
SteinAir SteinAir is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 131RB View Post
Why not simply run the hose through a simple ball valve or fuel type shut off valve and make it part of your emergency checklist.
Because in instances that this is designed for there is no such thing as " going through an emergency checklist".....when you literally have mere seconds between flying and then being on fire post crash, checklists aren't an option. We spent a lot of time discussing this and just didn't have the time to get it done, so I'm glad someone picked up the ball and completed it. This is meant as one of those last ditch emergency life saving devices that hopefully never is activated, but if it is may make the difference between life and death. In the world that this is intended, sometimes an event/incident has happened before the pilot even knows there is something wrong.

Also, this just isn't physically possible given the way many airshow airplanes are plumbed....

This isn't necessarily a device for the every man's airplane and re-ivention of the wheel isn't needed here if you intend to install in your aircraft. Believe me, there have been many, many discussions with many smart folks on this over the past year with almost every conceivable iteration looked at in detail from every angle. I am of the opinion that this is probably the best all around result without building a space shuttle level device. This is an especially touchy subject and personally emotional for many of the folks involved in it given the reasoning for it's implementation.

My 2 cents as usual.

Stein

Last edited by SteinAir : 01-12-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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