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12-22-2011, 04:35 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Elkton, MD
Posts: 16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthocker
Probably want to add a DG and a turn coordinator too! 
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Probably not.
I am thinking that with the G3X system the separate autopilot will be a backup.
With the Dynon I will have 2 AHARS and battery backup so if I was unlucky enough that everything electrical went, I would use my attitude indicator to keep the right side up and my compass to steer to VFR area.
I have been taught to not fly IFR if I did not have a VFR out.
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12-22-2011, 04:35 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strasnuts
I think it is scary to believe you can forecast your personal minimums. You really need to know how to fly IFR if you are going to go in it. Stay out of icing and have a way out. I believe the surprise is what kills people. So I agree there is one type of IFR too. You should be current and ready for anything.
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Just a thought...this topic has been beaten to death countless times - you can search for "Soft IFR" and read to your hearts content. Or, if you really want to discuss it again, how about hitting that "New Thread" button. It takes the same number of clicks as it does to completely change the topic of the OP's thread and take it completely of topic.
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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12-22-2011, 09:27 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canal Winchester, Ohio
Posts: 417
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John
I would give AFS a serious look. They have larger screens, faster processors, higher resolution, VFR sectionals, IFR low en-route maps, approach plates
airport directory all GEO referenced. Absolutely fantastic customer. Dual
AHRS, AOA built in.
These screens are amazing. They have a new feature on the map that gives
You distance and heading when you move your stylus around on all the maps.
There are just to many things to mention.
http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com
Watch the video dated 12-16-11 on the home page
Geoff
__________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 N829GW 865hrs
1940 Piper J3 Cub
Rans S21
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12-23-2011, 12:25 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 44
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All of the certified stuff is certified by the FAA, correct? The FAA is a Government agency. It takes our ridiculous Government forever to get anything done. So, it's understandable that the G3X is more capable than something that's certified. I fly on the E-3 for the Air Force. I have a 99 cent application on my iPad that is far more capable than anything we have to navigate with in our $400 million airplane. It's not certified though.  Don't think that just because the Government certifies it, that it makes it better.
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12-24-2011, 05:54 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,788
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I went thru the same thinking process last summer. I decided on the 3 screen G3X system with a Dynon D6 backup (has it's own internal battery) and a dual buss (two batteries). I plan on using my 10 in IFR and wanted the redundancy. It's scary to think that for 20 years I have flown my 1980 Archer IFR with only a standby electric horizon and standby vac. pump.
My decision was driven by the need to have redundant displays in both the pilot and co-pilot location. My wife, my dad, and I all fly and enjoy flying from either side.
The Dynon does not have weather, so you need a different solution. They told me last spring that they are working on an ADS-B solution. Had they had the weather I might have made a different decision.
Like Sean, I was concerned with the size with the Garmin, but after you sit behind the displays you will find they are more than big enough. If you think about it, the Dynon has a split screen display where the Garmin accomplishes this with two independent displays. So while the Dynon display appears larger, it is really only one screen split in two, it's still a little larger, but not by much.
The Garmin system is integrated with the TT GX pilot A/P, which also has it's own AHARS, So effectively, with the Garmin system you do end up with dual AHARS.
The Dynon A/P relies on the AHARS for the EFIS for which there can be two. From this perspective, they have the same redundancy.
You might want to take a look at the AFS also. It's a little more money, but much more capable than both the others
Regardless of which system you purchase, you need a backup instrument. I would not put old technology in a new plane, I would back it up with another efis such as the D6 or D10. They have an independent backup battery built in which runs well over an hour. Once you get used to flying behind and efis, I would not want to think about staying upright with just a Horizon, Airspeed and Altitude.
Bill
__________________
Bill Peyton
RV-10 - 1125 hrs
N37CP
First Flight Oct 2012
Aviation Partners, LLC
Last edited by Bill.Peyton : 12-24-2011 at 05:57 PM.
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12-30-2011, 08:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill.Peyton
If you think about it, the Dynon has a split screen display where the Garmin accomplishes this with two independent displays. So while the Dynon display appears larger, it is really only one screen split in two, it's still a little larger, but not by much.
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Bill makes an excellent point about the practical comparison of a 10? landscape display against a pair of G3X 7? portrait displays that occupy about the same panel space.
It is common for pilot?s to recognize the desirability of having PFD, MFD mapping/charting, and engine gauge information on the display(s) located immediately in front of the pilot. For a 2 display G3X system this need is easily met because the PFD and MFD displays are always providing all the desired information.
A single 10? display can similarly provide the same information, but to do so it must cease to be just a widescreen PFD and instead the display space must be broken up to provide the PFD, MFD mapping/charting, and engine gauges in dedicated areas. When this happens the PFD image size is typically no longer larger than that provided by a G3X PFD display.
Comments are sometimes posted indicating that the G3X display glass size is too small (compared to a 10? display). Here again, a practical comparison of a 2 display G3X system mounted in front of the pilot instead of a typical 10? display shows that you actually have more glass area (307 cm2 for dual G3X displays versus ~286 cm2 for the 10? display under discussion).
If you are a pixel counter, the two 800 x 480 pixel G3X displays have 768K pixels while the single 1024 x 600 pixel 10? display has 615K pixels ? a 25% improvement for the G3X system.
As another important consideration in some installations, installing two G3X displays instead of a single 10? display gives you excellent availability in case power to the display is removed, or the display becomes unavailable for any other reason. If either G3X display is lost, the remaining display enters a mode where it continues to provide virtually all the MFD mapping and charting information, engine information, and PFD information that the system provided with 2 displays. Again, this information is provided immediately in front of the pilot, not cross-cockpit, so continuing a flight to the destination is seldom an inconvenience.
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
Please email us for support instead of using Private Messaging due to the limitations of the latter.
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12-31-2011, 03:16 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Dual AHARS won't do any good if your screen fails.
G3X all the way... the gear is derived from the G1000 and as has been mentioned, much more capable. Plenty of certified 7 figure airplanes out there using the G1000.
We went with the G3X for the IFR features, plates, data, etc...
G3X plus a Dynon D6 for the back up.... you now have your two AHARS as well as two stand alone systems (with battery back up and minimal install pain).
__________________
Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
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12-31-2011, 03:47 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 2,052
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After Sun n Fun, I did a thumbnail comparison on prices between a few common glass systems.
At the time, the dual G3X combo was way expensive, however I understand that Garmin have realigned prices. The thing that sold the Skyview was the built in transponder and the good pricing on the autopilot servos.
What would be useful would be if someone could revisit the financial side, particularly on this comparison.
I am in the UK, so our prices are unrepresentative.
We are almost sold on a 10" Skyview with a G695 on the side with an SL30 to provide the ILS signal for the Skyview.
However if the same can be achieved with dual G3X's at a competitive price............
__________________
"I add a little excitement, a little spice to your lives, and all you do is complain!" - Q
Donated in 2020
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12-31-2011, 06:21 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leesburg, va
Posts: 213
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After using both systems
So I found a local avionics dealer that had bot systems setup as demo systems. After explaining my mission to him and playing with all the systems I went with 2 G3X screens, tt autopilot, sl40, gtn 750, ps8000 and the headless transponder.
I have been playing around with the mounting and am very happy with the screen size of the garmin stuff. I am still looking at backup options, might go with electric backup instruments next to the garmin screens. We will see.
I do recommend you actually touch and play with any system before you buy, the all feel very different, from button pushes to knob turns.
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12-31-2011, 07:21 AM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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One thing I can add about multiple screens - it's not just about in flight failures (or IFR flying)!
I can't tell you how many times I have had one screen removed, and needed to do some build-up or troubleshooting and needed to look at the bus voltage (For instance), or other system's parameter. You need a screen to do that in an all glass cockpit.
We've got multiple screens in our GRT, Dynon, and G3X - equipped RV's. It's very nice to know that we have flexibility when it comes to either flying or maintenance.
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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